Crippen- Almost 100 Years

[ghoulstonstreet]

The Hawley Crippen murder case is almost 100 years old. His wife Cora, or Belle Elmore, disappeared 100 years ago this month's end.

Isn't there a thread here on this site which discusses it? Why can't I find it? Any clues?

Anybody seen the Secrets of the Dead episode about the new tests on the skin tissue (found to be male) from the burial site? Also, the decision in Dec. 09 not to allow Crippen's relatives to rebury the body in Michigan (USA)?

I think this is a most interesting case and I think Scotland Yard needs to give up the physical evidence it's holding if the truth can come out vis a vis DNA work. But then I think there are certain people who don't want to take down a legend, which is what Crippen has become.

Any comments would be appreciated.

[Mayerling]

Crippen Threads

As far as I can recall there were occasional threads here dealing with the Doctor. The issue of his guilt being questioned was on one. I believer there was also a thread dealing with Inspector Walter Dew, under the "Police" section, as the Inspector (as a lower rank officer) was somewhat involved in the RIpper investigation. If I may, take a look (if you haven't) at the article on Dr. Crippen in The Wikipedia, which mentions the issues of current reinvestigation that you are interested in. The best book on Crippen (aside from THE NOTABLE BRITISH TRIAL volume) that I have seen is Tom Cullen's book, published in the U.S. in the 1970s as THE MILD MURDERER. Cullen also wrote AUTUMN OF TERROR (American title, WHEN LONDON WALKED IN TERROR) about "Jack".

[jmenges]

Supper with the Crippens by David James Smith is another good book on the case. In my opinion, better than Cullen's.

JM

[apricot]

Supper with the Crippens by David James Smith is another good book on the case. In my opinion, better than Cullen's.

JM

Totally agree, if you have any doubts as to the good doctor's guilt - you won't by the end of the book.

Angie

[Ally]

Isn't there a thread here on this site which discusses it? Why can't I find it? Any clues?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Here's a clue. Try using the search feature. Type in Crippen. Scroll down the list to the 3 threads with Crippen in the title. Pick one. Or all three. Have a ball.

[jmenges]

I'm hijacking this thread to announce that I was interviewed by the BBC this morning concerning the 100th anniversary of the Crippen case. I think I ranted like a madman to BBC reporter Steve Tompkins. He has also interviewed John Trestrail and JP Crippen, and after my interview, stated that he'd try to contact Dr. Foran. Should be an interesting piece, I spoke to the writer for half an hour, and it's the largest venue yet for the counter argument on the DNA to be presented.

I'll post the link here when it is online.

JM

[belinda]

I think Crippen is innocent

The Trial was a joke and the man had been condemned before he was even found Guilty.

I don't think anybody murdered Cora(Cunegunde) I think she went off with another man

If that case was tried on that evidence today you couldn't get a conviction

[jmenges]

Needless to say I disagree whole heartedly. Do you have or know of any evidence to support his innocence?

Your points above can be countered by:

"the man had been condemned before he was even found Guilty."

He and Ethel were ready to commit suicide on the ship had they realized that they were caught. Suicide notes were found in both of their pockets.

"I don't think anybody murdered Cora(Cunegunde) I think she went off with another man"

Crippen had tolerated numerous infidelities of Cora's. (Cunegunde is listed as a male in the census btw) German lodgers and an American boxer. Crippen had no real reason to kill his wife based on infidelity.


If that case was tried on that evidence today you couldn't get a conviction

I disagree. He bought the poison, the flesh (containing the poison) was wrapped in her pajamas, her hair was in a curler in the grave, she was NEVER heard from again, what remains of her body is buried beneath a head stone. She is dead and Crippen killed her. In fact, he probably killed his first wife in Salt Lake City.

I'd happily read anyone's suggestions of his innocence if it was backed up with some sort of PROOF. Otherwise I'd say you have been sucked into too many bad TV shows.

JM

[Adam Went]

Crippen was the obvious suspect. History tells us that the obvious suspect isn't always the correct one. I'm no expert on the Crippen case and won't pretend to be, but there's just something about it that doesn't make sense, and I tend to think that Dr. Crippen might have been innocent as well. Just a gut feeling, eh?

He was one of those who might as well have been hung before his trial even started.

Cheers,
Adam.

[jmenges]

Crippen was the obvious suspect. History tells us that the obvious suspect isn't always the correct one. I'm no expert on the Crippen case and won't pretend to be, but there's just something about it that doesn't make sense, and I tend to think that Dr. Crippen might have been innocent as well. Just a gut feeling, eh?

He was one of those who might as well have been hung before his trial even started.

Cheers,
Adam.

In the real world (the one where I live) the "obvious suspect" when a woman is dismembered and buried in her own cellar, is her philandering husband. This is especially true when said woman is poisoned by a drug that the husband purchased and when the husband's girlfriend is parading herself around town in the dead wife's clothes and jewelry, and then runs at the first indication of trouble. I appreciate that you admittedly are "no expert" on the Crippen case, but you must realize that on the planet Earth, the "obvious suspect" in a domestic murder is 99% of the time the correct one.

JM

[Adam Went]

JM:

This is especially true when said woman is poisoned by a drug that the husband purchased

Sounds very much like the Maybrick case, except with roles reversed, doesn't it? And as it was eventually discovered, Florence wasn't guilty of that either.....or Lindy Chamberlain and her baby.....no, JM, the obvious suspect isn't always the correct one. Nor is what would be considered the most damning evidence always valid. Not at all.

Crippen was no idiot, he had more or less dodged the police investigation, then after everything he decides to take off and dresses Le Neve as a boy and what not? It makes no sense. It just doesn't. It reeks more of his trying to avoid a scandal (taking off with his mistress so soon after the disappearance of his wife, who was, let's remember, quite a popular woman) than try to run from his crimes.

As I said, it's simply my own opinion and a gut feeling, I can't back it up with any real evidence, that's just how it is.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Debra A]

I'm hijacking this thread to announce that I was interviewed by the BBC this morning concerning the 100th anniversary of the Crippen case. I think I ranted like a madman to BBC reporter Steve Tompkins. He has also interviewed John Trestrail and JP Crippen, and after my interview, stated that he'd try to contact Dr. Foran. Should be an interesting piece, I spoke to the writer for half an hour, and it's the largest venue yet for the counter argument on the DNA to be presented.

I'll post the link here when it is online.

JM

Well I am looking forward to your mad rantings, JM! It's about time an opposing viewpoint was given following the DNA documentary, and you are the man to do it.

[belinda]

Points To Ponder *****

Cora Crippen Birth Name Cunegunde Macktamotski

Bernard Spillsbury could not even identify the remains as male or female.
He made an identification based on one piece of skin

Edward Marshall Hall expressed doubts about Crippen having deliberately done it

Raymond Chandler also found the whole scenario devised by the prosecution implausible

It is very hard to find any unbiased information on the Crippen case as no as yet unbiased accounts have been written.All books have started with the presumption of Crippens guilt.

The case needs a complete unbiased review

[belinda]

*****
Though sceptical, Dew got on so well with his suspect that, in mid-statement, they went to an Italian restaurant for lunch. The same afternoon, with his detective-sergeant, he searched the house in Hilldrop Crescent, but found nothing. He was now almost persuaded. To contact the missing wife, he even helped her husband prepare a small advertisement to appear in an American newspaper!
*****

*****
On Wednesday 13 July, beneath loose bricks in the coal cellar floor, they discovered a decaying human body: headless, limbless, and boneless. In the filleted remains were found traces of hyoscine, a poison Crippen was subsequently found to have ordered from a chemist before his wife's hasty 'departure'.
*****

Where were the ribs,the spine?

From here

http://www.marconicalling.com/museum/html/events/events-i=47-s=1.html

[Adam Went]

Some really good points there Belinda, well said.
I think it's a reasonable suggestion that if Crippen went to trial for the same crime now, he would not/could not be convicted.

As I said before, public opinion had him hung before he ever went to trial....

Cheers,
Adam.