Meredith Kercher case

[brummie]

Why didn't you delete your comment then? Apology not accepted. Your comments were too stupid to accept a footnote.

Cheers,

Mike

I was merely seeking to indicate my starting point based on early reports on the case in England.A minimum of research reveals I was wrong and I've never been afraid to admit I was wrong.So once again I apologise for any offence.

[jason_c]

It now "seems as if there was an interpreter"? What does that mean? So all along, there's been no interpreter, but now when people are outraged by the railroading, suddenly an interpreter appears? There was NO interpreter at the overnight 14 hour question session where Amanda claims the cops were threatening her, screaming at her and hitting her in the back of the head to
"help" her remember.

And sorry, while that website has a lot of information, it is decidedly biased (by their own blatant admission) to the prosecution. So it is not the best place to get information. A place to get some information, yes. But they have a slant and it is not unbiased.

Actually the interpreter was appearing as early as March the 13th.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...her-knox-trial

The wesite posted is biased. But it is a detailed look at the evidence, far more detailed than 5 minute news item or a double page spread in a broadsheet.

[Ally]

I've just found this excellent link to the case. It goes into great detail about the evidence.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

It now seems as if there was an interpreter as Knox's Nov.5 questioning.

It now "seems as if there was an interpreter"? What does that mean? So all along, there's been no interpreter, but now when people are outraged by the railroading, suddenly an interpreter appears? There was NO interpreter at the overnight 14 hour question session where Amanda claims the cops were threatening her, screaming at her and hitting her in the back of the head to
"help" her remember.

And sorry, while that website has a lot of information, it is decidedly biased (by their own blatant admission) to the prosecution. So it is not the best place to get information. A place to get some information, yes. But they have a slant and it is not unbiased.

[The Good Michael]

Let me close by apologising for my initial anti-american reaction which in this case appears to be unfounded,SORRY.

Why didn't you delete your comment then? Apology not accepted. Your comments were too stupid to accept a footnote.

Cheers,

Mike

[brummie]

Well I can't say I've been following the evidence in the case all that closely, and on reading this thread my initial reaction was 'here we go a bunch of typical yanks who believe those nasty europeans out to nail a poor defenceless US citizen on trumped up evidence or completely inept Inspector Clouseau type policing' after all we know every judicial system outside America is incompetent and corrupt don't we (especially when it comes to accusing poor innocent Americans). So I decided to do a bit of research into the case ,admittedly only a few hours,my initial feelings are:

Rudy Guede-Guilty

Amanda Knox-Self centered,superficial? certainly. Murderer? Don't know,certainly the case against her is nowhere near proved enough for a guilty verdict.

Sollecito-Again no real evidence apart from the knife in his apartment

A few points I remain unclear about

1. 1) I understand an expert has cast doubt on the knife.Was this an expert paid for by the defence or (as I'm sure I saw somewhere) one appointed by the court
2. 2)The report I saw said the kinife could not have been used ot inflict ALL the wounds.implying it could have done some
3. 3) Is there any known association between Guede and the other two accused prior to trhe murder?

I@ would also appreciate comments on this please .http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6921995.ece

Let me close by apologising for my initial anti-american reaction which in this case appears to be unfounded,SORRY.

[The Good Michael]

Reverse OJ


Mike

[jason_c]

I've just found this excellent link to the case. It goes into great detail about the evidence.

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

It now seems as if there was an interpreter as Knox's Nov.5 questioning.

[jason_c]

Mignini has already been found not guilty in the abuse of power case against him. The case is under appeal.

As far as I can tell Mignini did not claim Meredith Kercher was killed during a Satanic ritual. He claimed the killing looked ritualistic, and noted it was on carried out on "Day of the Dead" day in Italy. This then was turned into "Satanic ritual killing" by the defendants lawyers, portraying Megnini as a loonatic. The only lawyers to have used the word Satanic were the defence lawyers

[Archaic]

Hi, Ally. I agree with what you just said.

I urge you to watch the full-length documentary I just posted, it will blow your mind.

Hi Gary. You are correct, Italian juries are permitted to watch television, read newspapers, even read the most extreme tabloids.

In Italy there is no 5th Amendment Right (the right to remain silent, the right to not incriminate oneself under pressure).

Court isn't held daily until the trial is over, but only on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
There were months of twice-a-week testimony, then a TWO MONTH SUMMER VACATION right in the middle of the trial!
I cannot believe that the EU permits this.

I always thought studying abroad was a wonderful idea...Maybe the US Justice Dept. and the Universities should brief every American student on all the rights they will no longer have when they live in a foreign country. Here I'm an adult and I had no idea the Italian system was so different.

Best regards, Archaic

[Garry Wroe]

In addition, John, jury members were allowed to go home every evening where, presumably, they were exposed to the sensationalistic media coverage of the case.

Interestingly enough, Knox's aunt granted the BBC an interview immediately after the verdict was returned and revealed that Italian friends had guaranteed a conviction. Apparently, that's the way in which Italian jurisprudence functions. The real trial, according to these sources, begins with the appeal process.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Ally]

They were told that Amanda took a shower in a blood-spattered bathroom, making her look like a callous psychopath. They weren't shown what the bathroom actually looked like at the time.

This is bad, really really bad. I'm shocked.

Best regards, Archaic

Wow. I am just...wow. I knew the media was partly responsible for inflaming public opinion against her ...just like they do in frankly every sensational case, but that's downright despicably dishonest.

Frankly I guess I am not at all surprised she was convicted now if that's the mindset of the jurors going in. Who would listen to any evidence if you thought someone had gone in and taken a shower amongst that mess.

I do have to say I have always been of the mindset that most people convicted of crimes are guilty, but I admit this has thoroughly shaken my certainty about the ability of modern criminal procedures to eliminate error. The quotes from the prosecutors and everything....

Suddenly devoid of any desire to revisit Italy lest I be falsely accused, smeared by tabloids posing as journalism and at the mercy of some crazed prosecutor who prefers to grandstand and call the accused a whore rather than deal in facts.

And of course we cannot forget that Sollecito is caught up in this too, convicted on equally flimsy evidence but since he's no fun to play as a sex-crazed manipulative murderous she-devil, his fate is hardly worth mentioning.

[Archaic]

Travesty

Amanda Knox Documentary, Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8vV2...eature=related

I just watched this '48 Hours' documentary about the Knox case, and my head is spinning.

The prosecutor, Menini, is currently under criminal indictment for abusing the powers of his office, yet he was NOT asked to step down from this trial. Instead he is using it as a public platform to re-establish himself in the eyes of the Italian public.

He believes that 'Satanic Cults' are active all over the world and are actively conducting murderous 'Blood Rituals'.

The source of his information is a self-proclaimed Italian psychic who claims that she talks to the dead.

She claims to be informed of facts by a dead priest who is helping her to fight Satan.
(I am not kidding.)

This prosecutor believes that the serial killer known as 'The Monster of Florence' who killed 14 people was not a serial killer at all,
but a Satanic Cult enacting 'Blood Sacrifices'.
(The murders were similar to the Zodiac Murders in the US; couple making out in parked cars were targeted.)

When the American author Preston & his Italian co-author came out with the book 'The Monster of Florence' which investigated the serial killer behind the 14 murders, Menini was outraged. He hauled both men into custody and subjected them to the same extreme interrogation methods that Amanda Knox was subjected to. He even accused them of being part of the 'Satanic Cult Conspiracy' which supposedly carried out all 14 murders! In this documentary the two men explain what their ordeal was like. It sounds like the Spanish Inquisition.

Menini and his psychic friend came up with the theory that Amanda, Raffaele and Guede killed Meredith
during a "Satanic Sex and Blood Ritual Sacrifice", despite the fact that all the evidence points to Guede having acted alone.

Please watch this and share your thoughts. It's so far beyond outrageous that I think you will be stunned.

As for myself, I am ashamed that at first I assumed this girl was guilty because the Italian Police claimed to all have the evidence.
Now I think the Italian judicial system is insane.

Best regards, Archaic

[John Hacker]

It would be a joke if it wasn't so sad...

I've been following this case from day one and my opinion hasn't changed (of the case... my opinion of Italy's justice system has severly degraded) since day one...

From the start this has been a lava lamp of lunacy from the prosecutor (who's got issues of his own)...

First it was about extreme sex...

Then some sort of quarrel over rent money...

There was the Japanese manga theory...

Now we're down to some sort of revenge against the "prissy girl" thing...

Any of which might make sense if the 3 alleged participants had a long history together.

They don't.

Knox and her boy friend were together for a few weeks. There's no tight ties between them and Guede. (whose DNA and prints were found at the scene... who had a history of burglery and carrying a knife) I have been following true crime for 30 years now and cannot come up with the slightest parallel beyond the West Memphis 3 who got railroaded on a bizare prosecution theory with an indulging judge.

The main things the prosecution has brought to the table (Knife, bra clasp) were challenged not only by the defense, but by an idependent expert appointed by the court who felt that:

- The knife was unlikely to be the cause of many of the wounds

- The DNA "found" on the blade was of such low count as to be worthless (Not to mention the sloppy handling by the prosecutions expert)

- That the bra clasp finally picked up more than 7 weeks after the crime just might have been contaminated... (Shocking... I know)

I tried to keep an open mind through the trial, but the bottom line is that there is no hard evidence whatsoever. It's been a trial against the behavior and personalities of the defendents. And at no point has a believable theory of how/why the crime occurred involving all 3 defendents been offered.

This sort of crime happens every day... But with a single perpetrator. Can anyone think of a real parallel to what the prosecution has alleged here?

[Archaic]

Italian Police Video of the "Bloody" Bathroom

I think everybody should watch this video about the blood evidence found in the bathroom:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n71ZJPBq8uk

This is the police video taken the day they processed the crime scene. This is what the bathroom looked like to the naked eye.

The photo shown at the end of this video is the one the Italian public was shown, apparently without being told that the photo was taken AFTER the entire bathroom has been treated with chemicals to make protein evidence visible.

They were told that Amanda took a shower in a blood-spattered bathroom, making her look like a callous psychopath. They weren't shown what the bathroom actually looked like at the time.

This is bad, really really bad. I'm shocked.

Best regards, Archaic

[JennyL]

I don't know if Amanda Knox is guilty of being involved in the killing of her roommate. If she is, she should get life imho-not a paltry 26 years.
But I do know the "evidence" as presented and particularly the supposed scenario offered by the prosecutors is ludicrous-and would be hilarious if it didn't involve the horrible death of a woman and likely the ruining of at least one and perhaps two lives wrongly convicted.

The prosecution putting their own, totally imagined words in the mouth of a woman they described in open court as a "she-devil" is flabbergasting-you can't make this stuff up. How about this:

“You are always behaving like a little saint. Now we will show you. Now we will make you have sex.” [the Italian prosecutor's laughable imagined words said by Amanda just before she supposedly helped rape and stab her roomie].

So surely Amanda, after delivering lines straight out of bad 19th c. dime novels must have slit her roommate's throat and stabbed her because a)she was jealous of her looks and/or b)she was furious that the virginal girl wouldn't join their "orgy"-take your pick, jury!

As for her behavior in court, frankly if I'd been wrongly accused of murder, vilified and spoken of as a devil and whore, hated with the hate usually specially reserved for the worst of the worst and looking at the end of my life as I know it in my early 20s, I'd be damned furious if I were innocent. And I'd look that way every day in court as I don't happen to possess a poker face and my acting skills couldn't cover for the horror and anger I'd feel for my situation. Think about it: whatever the shock and sadness she felt at her roommate's death, if Amanda were innocent of killing her, how else would she be feeling at being wrongly accused? How does anyone feel when that happens(and it has).

Murders between acquaintances do happen. But generally there has to be some sort of plausible motive. Bugliosi had a hell of a time with the Tate/LaBianca murders, but wacky as it was he managed to acquire the evidence to prove his theory to the jury and get a conviction for Manson for murders he wasn't present for.
And there needs to be much more than that kind of circumstantial evidence. This evidence is terribly spotty. And what's even more inplausible is the lack of evidence that should be present if she was holding down and stabbing the girl herself.

I have no "pro-American", rah-rah nationalistic bias here at all but there's just no "there" there in this case. Someone killed the girl-and the glaring likelihood is it's the third party, the one who doesn't fit, the guy whose semen was found in her-not Amanda or her boyfriend but just that one guy. Whatever else happened, there simply isn't enough proof of them taking part in her murder at all. What there plainly is is a lot of hatred and fantasizing and trial by media.

The prosecutors and jury look like medieval fools.