kennedy assassination

Some very good points Sara.

The release of the autopsy room photos, the "head" shots, pardon the phrasing....cannot be reconciled with either the images on the Zapruder film, or some of the historical language used to describe his wounds. The man in the Zapruder film had his head nearly blown off...its the reason Jackie tried to climb off the back of the car...she had his brains sprayed on her dress. The wounds were massive. The released photos showed none of that trauma.

I think the reason that people accepted the Warren Commission was partly due to the fact that they were in the beginning of an era where no-one young trusted anything anyone old said....as shown by the speculation the moon landing was faked,...and the Commission knew that. The mainstream would discount many arguments as left wing once a massive looking document was released, showing their "thorough" examination and findings based on tests and expert opinion.

Yet these experts forgot to account for the fact that the Senators seat in front of John Kennedy had been moved inwards a few inches, towards the drivers seat, to allow the President to easily step in and out of the backseat....that few inches addresses the magic bullet problem.

Happy New Years folks.

[Sara]

And by the way, the medical witnesses at Parkland, the first hospital in Texas to receive the President's body, consistently describe injuries compatible with a frontal wound (specifically most cite a right frontal wound behind the upper ear area), and a sizeable exit wound in the back of the head with protruding brain matter etc, and sections of skull forced back and outwards.

They also cite a tracheal (neck) injury which was ALREADY there when the tracheostomy was performed, and finally they also describe a back/chest bullet wound, which is bourne out by the official photos of the clothes whcih JFK was wearing.

None of this evidence marries with the later depostions given to eg Warren, inc those given by the Bethesda 'official' team (although some broke ranks later in defiance of the secrecy documents they were forced to sign).

See Nurse Hutton's brief and unemotional report:

http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/hutton1.gif

and reports from the doctors attending at Parkside (before the body's removal to Bethesda):

http://www.jfklancer.com/3Patients.html

There is an awful lot of information out there, but it's necessary to get to the accounts of the FIRST people on the scene - whichever part of it - eye-witnesses, etc etc. These often differ markedly from the official accounts; which is why they have taken so long to get into the public domain. The Warren Report in particular was compiled entirely from FBI, CIA and Govt sources. It ignored huge rafts of eyewitness evidence which didn't tally with its own 'findings' - or rather agenda, as some would put it. It even ommited to look into Oswald's CIA and other relevant connections! - which have since been demonstrated

Anything which didn't tally with the preposterous 'magic bullet' and single assassin theories was simply repressed or ignored. I'm amazed that at this point, given all we now know, anyone could still swallow this story

[Sara]

Further to my post above, and thanbks to whoever posted this Mary Farrell link -
There's a succinct and very 'objective' ie measured summary of the problems regarding the autopsy evidence on http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/inde...tos_and_X-Rays

and also a good number of links to info on this, though I haven't checked them all out yet.

How anyone can even read the first page of Mary Farrell's site and still take the Warren Commission report in the least bit seriously is beyond me Even US official enquiries have trashed it!

[Sara]

As a young woman although something of a left-winger I wasn't inclined to believe every 'conspiracy theory' put in front of me. But the more one learned of this assassination the more disturbing it became. My strongest memory is of listening, in a documentary made many years ago, to some of those present at the PRESIDENT'S AUTOPSY.

Everyone present in the room was forced to sign a contract of secrecy (US Official Secrets Act type embargo), with very serious consequences inc jail and a criminal record for anyone who spoke out. Nevertheless a few troubled souls did later speak out, and confirmed all our suspicions that the shattering of KFK's skull was vastly more than the authories have ever admitted to; and that the damage was incompatible with the stories we have been told officially. I'm quite sure that the body was moved form the state of Texas contrary to US law, to aid subsequent control of information on the event.

A video of the autopsy was made by the official hosptial recorder and was immedialty siezed by the authorities; it's never been seen since. There were four photographers present, and every means possible has been used to surpress the original photos taken of JFK's injuries, which were all siezed - as was the Zapruder film for a long time. Zapruder had to resort to the law to get it back, iirc (he then sold the copyright to Time-Life who charged a fortune for the stills LOL)

These autopsy images (a link was posted much earlier in this thread) demonstrated quite clearly that the back of his head was blown out completely - you can see the spray in the Zapruder film! - as could *only* happen from a bullet from the front - ie it's an exit wound at the back. The 'official' autopsy photos are heavily doctored and in any case only show the corpse once it had been cleaned up. Nevertheless the true images are starting to make their way into the public domain.

There is no doubt in my own mind whatever that there was a massive cover-up after the assassination - the 50m year rule confirms it - but the question remains, why? I think Oswald was certainly involved; but was also a patsy intended to take the rap for the other assassin/s. For whom they were all working, I don't know.

All I do know, is that the autopsy record and its determined supression holds the key to the truth.

Maybe Dougie has never studied it, just a he seems ignorant (on the Hantratty thread) of the shaky foundations of LCN DNA testing!

[jason_c]

jimarilyn

As i understand it Oswald's ability with a rifle was pretty good while in the Marines. In a nation of "gun nuts" Oswald would have had more skill with a gun than 99% of Americans.

Remember, he'd also had previous for asttempted murder before Kennedy and Tippit.

[jimarilyn]

Hi,

Those on this thread who propose that Lee Oswald carried out that amazing feat of shooting, with a 22 year old rifle (with a misaligned scope) at a moving target on a downward incline, conveniently forget one very important thing.....
It had been a full 4 years plus since Oswald had been disharged (or had he ?) from the US Marine Corps. His ability with a rifle during his 3 years there left much to be desired. He then spent the following 2 years and 8 months in Russia before returning to the USA with his young Russian bride. He was only to live for a further 17 months, most of which time can be accounted for. Just when was he supposed to have undertaken rifle practice during this time ? Common sense alone tells one that to maintain any sort of standard/ability with a rifle requires prolonged and continuous target practice, just to keep one's eye in.

regards,
James

[Phryne Fisher]

I havent back read all the posts since my last, but Ill guess thats the first one to agree with me....good on ya James.

He had marginal skills, and brains, there is a distinct absense of any militant actions related to his Communist leanings other than using his Ammendment right to speak freely about his beliefs, and there is overwhelming evidence based in New Orleans that he was being manipulated by individuals in his life.

I saw an Antiques Roadshow the other day, US version, and there was a photographer on showing some of his personal collection. Like the picture of Johnson being sworn in on Air Force One....the only photograph of that event. He was the White House Photographer from 61-63, and a really fascinating guy as you might imagine,...for the life of me his name eludes me at the moment. Damn......anyway, he was 5 cars back in the Dallas motorcade that morning. He heard the three distinct shots.

Now was it ever proven that the Marcano was fired three times, were there 3 shells at the Depository scene? I cant recall.

Best regards.

I agree with you too, perrymason. This thread inspired me to read up on the Kennedy assassination, and the more I read, the more convinced I am that there was a conspiracy and Oswald was indeed a patsy.

[Phryne Fisher]

I havent back read all the posts since my last, but Ill guess thats the first one to agree with me....good on ya James.

He had marginal skills, and brains, there is a distinct absense of any militant actions related to his Communist leanings other than using his Ammendment right to speak freely about his beliefs, and there is overwhelming evidence based in New Orleans that he was being manipulated by individuals in his life.

I saw an Antiques Roadshow the other day, US version, and there was a photographer on showing some of his personal collection. Like the picture of Johnson being sworn in on Air Force One....the only photograph of that event. He was the White House Photographer from 61-63, and a really fascinating guy as you might imagine,...for the life of me his name eludes me at the moment. Damn......anyway, he was 5 cars back in the Dallas motorcade that morning. He heard the three distinct shots.

Now was it ever proven that the Marcano was fired three times, were there 3 shells at the Depository scene? I cant recall.

Best regards.

I agree with you too, perrymason. This thread inspired me to read up on the Kennedy assassination, and the more I read, the more convinced I am that there was a conspiracy and Oswald was exactly what he said - a patsy.

[sdreid]

The testimony was that three empty casings were found on the floor. A live round had also been chambered in the rifle for a potential fourth shot. As I understand it, the magazine was empty.

Hi Ron,

Jefferson Davis Tippit joined Dallas Police 11 years previously in 1952.
Strangely enough, not far from where he was gunned down there was both a Jefferson Street and a Davis Street. Some coincidence that eh ?

There's no doubt in my mind that Lee Oswald was exactly what he shouted to newsmen crowded into the corridors of Dallas Police Station that weekend..." a patsy "

regards,
James

I havent back read all the posts since my last, but Ill guess thats the first one to agree with me....good on ya James.

He had marginal skills, and brains, there is a distinct absense of any militant actions related to his Communist leanings other than using his Ammendment right to speak freely about his beliefs, and there is overwhelming evidence based in New Orleans that he was being manipulated by individuals in his life.

I saw an Antiques Roadshow the other day, US version, and there was a photographer on showing some of his personal collection. Like the picture of Johnson being sworn in on Air Force One....the only photograph of that event. He was the White House Photographer from 61-63, and a really fascinating guy as you might imagine,...for the life of me his name eludes me at the moment. Damn......anyway, he was 5 cars back in the Dallas motorcade that morning. He heard the three distinct shots.

Now was it ever proven that the Marcano was fired three times, were there 3 shells at the Depository scene? I cant recall.

Best regards.

[jimarilyn]

and Tippit just happened to join the Dallas police a short time before the assassination.

Hi Ron,

Jefferson Davis Tippit joined Dallas Police 11 years previously in 1952.
Strangely enough, not far from where he was gunned down there was both a Jefferson Street and a Davis Street. Some coincidence that eh ?

There's no doubt in my mind that Lee Oswald was exactly what he shouted to newsmen crowded into the corridors of Dallas Police Station that weekend..." a patsy "

regards,
James

[jimarilyn]

Hello to all those who have spoken for or against a JFK murder conspiracy. I was twenty years old when the 35th president was shot and killed, and although I was not a JFK political supporter the ensuing mystery immediatly caught my interest. forty-five years and thousands of readings and data studies later I believe that nearly that entire span of time was needed by me to unravel the enigma within the forest of mirrors that metamorphoused out of the brief criminal "reality" that occurred in just matter of minutes on November 23d 1963. I began the journey toward "who killed Kennedy" with the same fog of ignorance that all my fellow Americans and other globally curious observers suffered from, and because of this I went through the same series of erronious conclusions that I had to run over and over through the tests of logic gates and "evidence." I took some thirty-five years for me to rule out who was not the killer befor I could settle down to finally find a politically correct suspect to have possibly engineered such a grandly scaled crime of the century.

What fed and will always feed the government conspiracy monster for me was always the covering up of evidence by most of the Presidential dynasties that came to power post JFK, and I am presently awed that as recently as 2004 that the Bush, Ford, and Johnson presidential families could still deep six a graphic data program played to a global audience over the History channel, a film clip thatwas "dissapeared" by the power that obviously be to the point that what I had witnessed on a satelite network was gone from human access within a matter of days, possibly never to be seen again. I however being such a "buff" was Johny on the spot and luckily viewed in its entirety this literary victim of a none existant freedom of information myth. What I saw was consistant with my own conclusions up to a point. That point being the thirty-five year mark of my studies, to where I began to understand who had not masterminded the JFK conspiracy. It was apparent from my obsevation of this film clip documentary why? the data was permanently remove from human access, because it (the film) put a foot down in taboo territory despite being quite in error in its conclusions of LBJ being a mastermind of the JFK conspiracy. This film showed what a seriously criminal president LBJ was and it put him smack dab in the middle of the conspiracy organization, but he according to my studies Lyndon lacked the top political dog prerequisites of a Kennedy assisination formulator.

they say to never watch what a politician says, but rather watch where his feet have gone, well the night of Nov. 22, 1963 the history channel did prove that Lyndon Johnson' and Richard Nixon's feet took them to a seriously wrong party in Dallas Texas!. So we all know why this film just up and followed the dodo into extinction. this is prima facie large scale contemporay cover up conspiracy fact like the sequestering of JFK evidence into the national archives for fifty years, and is not coincidence. When you look at the Zapruder film some time don't put to much credance in the movement of Kennedy's head that can be influenced by frame manipulation, but rather follow the direction old Jack's scull cap that Jackie follows over the trunk lid of the limo. It is so obvious that most everyone on this site has never put a bullet into the back or the front of a human being's head, and so will meekly let some "scientific" expert tell you "what it is" that you are seeing.

Thirty-five years was what it took for me to gain any insight into the kller's motive, and then I had to overcome my reluctance to defile the memory of so many american presidents befor and after Kennedy was murdered. Kennedy's killer was a peer from on high who was not motivate by political objectives to kill him, but did what he did from a personal afront suffered at the stupidiy and arrogance of his victim. This killer was a western cowboy stile movie and literary buff and wanted to kill his man at high noon and in the streets of a Texas town in the stae of his birth to blow the man's brains from his head in a public sisplay of his rightious anger. This killer was familure with masterminding more than one political assisination to his credit long befor he insured that Kennedy woulf meet his maker, and that truly great old man died without any blemish or smear upon his honor. No Nixon or Johnson with their mundane form of corruption and little minds could have set that stage in Dallas and the mafia as a suspect is entirely laughable along with the CIA as being anything but proxies to be used again and again as scapegoats and shills by the old man I finally discovered as the grandmaster of the conspiracy chessboard. As the bible states "seek and you shall find," but only if you seek long and hard enough and never let the silly term conspiracy buff coined by the likes of Gerald Posner of any other literary shill of the CIA dessuade you from your hunt.

Hi Arisdemos,

The old man you are referring to... Clint Murchison,Sr, by any chance ?

regards,
James

[sdreid]

Oswald was likely quite disturbed but he was not a lunatic nor was he stupid.

[Ron Beckett]

Oswald - A "nut."

If the people who say that Oswald was a lone nut and nobody could have worked with him would like to explain a few things,such as,

How the nut was posted to Atsugi as a radar operator and learnt to speak Russian, just as any nut would.

How he worked out of Guy Bannister's office and was involved with agent James Hosty of the FBI.

How,if he wasn't working for Naval Intelligence for the whole time,he ever got back into the USA after defecting, was managed by De Mohrenschildt,
(who just happened to eat his gun before he was due to go before The House Assassinations Committee.),and Tippit just happened to join the Dallas police a short time before the assassination.

I could go on but I don't believe Bugliosi on anything,and the best books I have read on theories are 'Blood, Money and Power" by Barr McClellan, who was an attorney and explains why Kennedy had to be shot. It might also explain why Bobby Kennedy was not to be allowed to be president. Or aren't the two connected.

The second book is 'Oswald Talked' which explains what Oswald,Ruby et al were doing at the time as they were under FBI surveillance because they were stealing guns from an Army Base for the Cubans that the CIA were training-the parts of the CIA that were extreme right wingers anyway.

Anyone who when they hear 'conspiracy theory', immediately thinks of nuts and loonies,has been successfully brainwashed and still is waiting for Weapons of Mass Destruction to be found in Iraq. And for all of you people who want to know who shot Kennedy I believe the main shooter was Mac Wallace,probably in the Book Depository,and there are 3 or 4 candidates for the picket fence and the Dal-Tex building. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but please read above books before leaping down my throat for my well considered opinion.

[sdreid]

Dr. Mengele ordered it from Paraguay.