Reincarnation

[rain]

I agree, Jane. It's a great mystery. In addition, the history and development of Christianity was more complex than many people understand. I don't pretend to be a Biblical historian, but I know that different congregations and Christian leaders had different ideas. Some early Christians may have believed in reincarnation, and there are passages in the NT which strongly suggest a belief in a pre-life, or pre-natal existence, and reincarnation.

Here is an example of scripture suggestive of reincarnation.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen3.html

People are free to believe, or not...or they should be.

Thank you, Celesta.

those just the biblical verses I was thinking that should be taught.

[quasar]

To say who you were in a previous life I think is to miss the point. It is kind of making fun of something serious. I have reached the point long ago where I believe the whole heaven and hell thing is rediculous. Most religous people I find a little irritating , like Ned Flanders. Then, which is the one TRUE god?, is an argument that will never be resolved. There are some people out there who actually see themselves as 'Jedi' , strange but true. If I could choose my god now it would be Arnie's God in 'Conan the Barbarian' - CROM. That's the god for me.

I voted yes becuase I know I have a soul, and bugger anyone who sais that I don't. What will happen to it when I pass is a mystery - and that is how it will always be. Thanks ,Q.

[Jane Welland]

Hmm..

To say who you were in a previous life I think is to miss the point. .

My Nan always swore she was Nell Gwynn....

Jane x

[Celesta]

Archaic, Thanks for the book rec. I'm going to get a copy of this.

Jane, I sometimes have what seems like memories of another time, but I couldn't produce a name if I had, too. Still the so-called memories seem to be consistent, but I have no clue what they mean.

Quasar, I agree about the soul. I believe that animals possess souls, too.

Better stop there!

[Jane Welland]

Yes, where does it stop?

Recent research suggest that plants 'talk' to each other, implying some form of consciousness, imo (I realise that what constitutes consciousness is a hotly debated topic).

Perhaps, being all made of the same stuff fundamentally, the human, animal and plant worlds aren't so far removed from one another as we might have thought.

I'm straying a bit there from multiple lives. In my personal experience, many people have 'memories' of things - times, places, etc - they cannot explain.

I don't think my Nan was really Nell Gwynn, on the other hand.

Jane x

[Celesta]

Jane, I'm more or less on the same track.

[Jane Welland]

Hi Celesta

I find the trouble is that it raises so many questions that may be impossible to answer at the end of the day. These are deep and complex matters of phillsophy (which included religion imo), psychology and faith which take time and effort to contemplate!

I did most of my contemplating on this one years ago now, but that doesn't mean I understand any of it. I have been obliged to accept that I have to accept it, even if I can't explain it, which for me is difficult.

So, until I can find a better solution, re-incarnation it is.

I don't think that in any way devalues the importance of living life to the full, mind you!

Jane x

[Celesta]

Hi Jane,

That's pretty much the way it is with me, too. I've explored so many spiritual ways. I find that each time I do that it becomes a time of significant personal growth. I'm spending more time these days researching the history behind the various spiritual movements. There's something beyond this existence. I concur with the studies on plants, and I think you were dead on when you said this:

"Perhaps, being all made of the same stuff fundamentally, the human, animal and plant worlds aren't so far removed from one another as we might have thought."

The heart of life is spirit, and I don't think it resonates much differently from one critter to another.

[Celesta]

For anybody who has ever pondered the nature of Human Life, Human Death, and the Human Soul,
I highly recommend a book by Peter Novak called 'The Lost Secret of Death.'
The first link is to Novak's website; the second link offers a couple of reviews of his book; one is by a PhD. This book is the follow-up to his book called 'Division of Consciousness'.

http://www.geocities.com/divisiontheory/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Secret-Death-Divided-Afterlife/dp/1571743243

nd will expand so much that you will go up one full hat size!
Best regards, Archaic

Archaic, Thanks for the link, too. I stopped in at Barnes and Ignoble today, but they only had the book in their "warehouse." Looks like I may do some shopping around for it. Once again, thanks.

[Jane Welland]

I agree, Celesta

The heart of life is spirit, and I don't think it resonates much differently from one critter to another.

Yes, that's what I think - I can't accept that animals don't have spirits, even though I've heard it argued many times that they haven't! I know some regious philosophies have it that animals don't have spirits - but I don't see how that works, exactly. I always think you should have the same regard for all living creatures. I re-incarnation is correct - then maybe we were once all animals - or plants even! I don't know, but it's interesting to wonder about it.

And on that - if re-incarnation is correct, then I'm not sure I know what it is that gets reborn - the obvious answer is the soul - but what does that mean? Do you think, for example, that if you had the memories of another person, it would mean that you were that person in the past? Or perhaps it isn't as simple as that!

Many questions, precious few answers!

Jane x

[Celesta]

I'm not sure what gets reborn. Some people claim that the soul and the spirit are two different things. Maybe the spirit is the essence of existence and the vehicle for the soul. The Druids believed that there really was no death, and that death was just a passage from one form to another. I think these people were tuned into a larger scale of existence than most people today are even willing to recognize. I don't know of any tradition outside of Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, that does not believe strongly that all beings have a spirit. Native American spirituality probably would not exist without that concept, as is probably true for other similar traditions. The old Druids, shamans, and other holy persons believed they could communicate with other levels of existence and with beings within those levels. I've always incorporated what made sense to me into my own view of the universe and the nature of life. It's all too big to be shut up into a narrow worldview.

[Jane Welland]

Yes...

Have you noticed that it's all the big monotheistic faiths that may exclude the idea of universal spirit? I'm sure there's something worth pursuing there!

Pantheistic religions typically include animals in their pantheon - Egyptian, Greek, Roman, etc. Yet we traditionally consider at least two of these cultures to be at the height of ancient sophistication.

Possibly, there are links between the type of culture a society expresses and the type of religious faith it favours - I'll be off to consider that one!

Jane x

[Celesta]

Have you noticed that it's all the big monotheistic faiths that may exclude the idea of universal spirit? I'm sure there's something worth pursuing there!

Jane x

Ah-ha! Yes. The concept detracts from their core message---salvation through a single deity and his messenger. Yet to me God is the universal spirit. The spirit that moves through all things, as Tom Brown put it.

[Archaic]

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Secret-Death-Divided-Afterlife/dp/1571743243/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1

Hi, Celesta; I found 'The Lost Secret of Death' on our US Amazon.com- only $6.75 new!

My own copy of Novak is so dog-eared that I should buy another one, but I just realized I currently have 39 Books on my Amazon 'Wish List' right now!!!

Time to go buy a $1 Lottery ticket and see if I can afford to spend the whole rest of my life reading.
Regards, Archaic

[Celesta]

Good deal, Archaic! Thanks. I wonder if they'll do paypal. Thank you.

Bestest, Cel