The Sinking of the RMS Titanic and other ships.

[Archaic]

Human Remains From Titanic?

Hi everyone.

I posted this recently-released photo a couple of days ago on the thread for the new Rippercast devoted to Titanic, as it raised new questions in my mind regarding the possibility of human remains. I decided to re-post it here.

It appears to show where the corpse of a Titanic victim came to rest on the seabed. What puzzles me is that the dark mass beside the shoe appears to be the remains of something like a garment; possibly a long coat.

Shoes from Titanic have been perfectly preserved all these years because the leather is tanned. They don't biodegrade and appear to be unpalatable to sea life. I'm trying to figure out if this dark object could be a tanned leather coat, or possibly a heavily-treated oil-skin coat.

It actually reminds me of the ever-popular "waxed cotton" Australian Outback horseman's or drover's coats. They're made of heavily treated canvas sailcloth, are rather heavy, and repel water like crazy. They're traditionally made in the style of a 19th C. 'greatcoat' with multiple layers to provide extra insulation and help the rain to run off. (I have one myself for horseback riding, and it's stood up to years of abuse.) I attached a photo of one for those of you not familiar with them.

The object in the Titanic photo can't just be ordinary fabric or it would have disintegrated long ago at that depth. As my friend Celesta pointed out, part of it appears to be lying in folds.

> Does it look like a garment to the rest of you, or can anyone think of an alternative explanation?

>What other objects on the ship might give this appearance and have the physical properties required? Would there have been any specially-treated water-repellant waxed canvas sailcloth awnings or something of that nature?

I've particularly been wondering if any traces of forensic human remains could be preserved underneath the dark object, especially if they were embedded in the sand? (I don't mean large parts of a body, but perhaps something small like a tooth?)

This morning an interesting news story about this very photograph popped up on my phone:
"Titanic:Possible Human Remains Found In Shipwreck": http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1426660.html

I'm curious to hear the impressions of others.

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[louisa]

Passengers have booked years in advance for a trip on the Balmoral which is recreating Titanic's ill fated voyage. Some have paid around £8,000 for the privilege. The food being served is similar to the Titanic's.

I couldn't help but notice something in this photo though. I'm fairly certain that the Titanic didn't have these tiny dining tables where the plates were partially over the edge of the table.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/14/titanic-centenary-balmoral-journey-cruises?newsfeed=true

[louisa]

I've just looked at the photo in that link. You would have thought that at almost $2000 per head, the restaurant could have made the table itself look a little more authentic, instead of plain modern white candles plonked in the middle?

A silver bowl of flowers or a proper candelabra maybe?

[Archaic]

Hi Suzi, that's a cool story!

Hi Debra, your story creeped me out! Glad others came up with some good suggestions. I guess people have always given weird names to their children based upon what's popular at the moment...

Last year in the wake of the popular revolution there were babies in Egypt given the names "Facebook" and "Like".
(True, honest.)

Here's an article about dining on the Titanic and about modern restaurants who recreate the experience- one includes an actual bottle of 1907 champagne hauled up from the wreck of Titanic!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/04/13/150508849/dining-with-disaster-reviving-the-last-meal-on-the-titanic

Cheers,
Archaic

[Debra A]

Thanks Robert, Liv, Dave,
Yes, that of course is the very sensible answer!-that the names were added at the registration of the birth in April, after the sinking of the Titanic.
Thanks very much...I can sleep at night again now.

We also had a local mill 'Titanic Mills' built in 1911. It was suggested it was named Titanic for its size or because it was built in the same year but it may have been just named after the disaster as Titanic turned out not to be its original name. (Yes, we name mills in Yorkshire)

[Livia]

Debs, the birth wasn't registered till Q2, so perhaps they were just a tad long in registering the birth, by which time the Titanic tragedy occurred and suggested the additional names. Bit of a gruesome choice, though.

Ancestry family trees (several of them) give her birthdate
as March 12th but as Robert says, her birth was registered
in the next quarter.

Her burial record:



third from the bottom

It looks as though the "Carpathia Titanic" was an
afterthought, but her birth was registered with these
names included.

Her father was William Livesey, a woolen manufacturer
manager, who left a sizable estate when he died, over £26K.
Her mother was Elizabeth Haigh.

I couldn't find any passenger or crew member under the
names of Livesey or Haigh. So maybe she was named
Mabel Aubrey Carpathia Titanic Livesey because she
was born a month before to the day of the sinking?

None of the Ancestry family trees have an explanation.

[Robert]

Ancestry deaths show 8 people dying with "Titanic" among their names, and 2with "Carpathia." Nearly all of these were born 1912. There must have been a lot more over the years, masked by middle initial 'T' or 'C'.

[Cogidubnus]

but does anyone know of an explanation why someone might link and choose these two names for their child pre April 1912?

Hi Debs

Born when in March 1912 and registered/christened exactly when? Even today, registration of a birth has only to be made within 42 days of that birth...

All the best

Dave

[Robert]

Suzi, what did your grandad do with his other 7 lives!?

Debs, the birth wasn't registered till Q2, so perhaps they were just a tad long in registering the birth, by which time the Titanic tragedy occurred and suggested the additional names. Bit of a gruesome choice, though.

[Debra A]

A query

I've been aware for many years that in my local churchyard there was a tombstone dedicated to the Livesey family, including a young girl buried there born in 1912 and named Mabel Audrey Carpathia Titanic Livesey.
I always assumed that Mabel was born after the sinking of the Titanic in April 1912 and that is why she was given those two specific names.

Recently I have looked further at Mabel and discovered (mainly from her family's research posted on the internet) that she was born in March 1912.
This made the hairs on my neck stand on end, but then the sensible side of me thinks there must be an explanation why a parent would pick these two names in particular? The Carpathia and Titanic weren't from the same shipping line, but does anyone know of an explanation why someone might link and choose these two names for their child pre April 1912? Thanks

[Suzi]

Here's something interesting....a virtual tour of the Titanic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEpQmpg5-Iw

Excellent! thanks for that! just spent hours running around only to dive over the bow again!! LOL xx

[Suzi]

Heritage!!

My grandfather sailed with the White Star line for years on the Mauretania and the Olympic as a First class steward. When he told my grandma (born in 188!) that he was to be on the Titanic she was sooooo impressed- Now- following a 'night' in Liverpool he missed the boat train and hence the 'boat' she was a very angry woman...8 days later she was a very happy woman when he came back alive to Southampton...unlike 500 others!!! Later he had a similar experience in Manchester- and missed the Lusitania!!! Charmed me!!
Suz xx

[louisa]

Here's something interesting....a virtual tour of the Titanic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEpQmpg5-Iw

[Archaic]

Radio Show: "Saving the Titanic"

Here's a 1-hour radio program called "Saving the Titanic". The guests are 2 authors, a maritime heritage specialist, and the descendant of a Titanic survivor.

You can stream or download the show. (I'm not sure how long they keep shows in their stream-able archive, so if you're not going to listen relatively soon, I suggest downloading and saving it.)

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/04/10/surviving-the-titanic

Cheers,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Good thread...I guess the world's potentially greatest maritime disaster is the one that's been a ticking time bomb since 1944 ... ask folk around the Thames Estuary how they feel about the SS Richard Montgomery and half won't know...the other half look at you as if to say "I wish you hadn't reminded me.

There's an oil refinery just down the way, and Sheerness and Southend bask oblivious a short way away (well Southend's about 5 miles I think)...

Makes you think...watch out for those things that go BLAM! in the night...

Dave