The Sinking of the RMS Titanic and other ships.

[Adam Went]

Errata:

Haha, well I don't think there is, believe it or not, but it would hardly be surprising!

Meanwhile, in other shipping news, looks as if we're set for another showdown between the Japanese whaling ships and the anti-whaling protestors in the not too distant future....

The modern version of Bismarck VS Hood?

Cheers,
Adam.

[Errata]

Errata:

There's a shipwreck in the mouth of a river nearby to me, where cruise ships pass to and fro every single day - not much of a shipwreck, I confess (a small cargo vessel which snapped its moorings at its port downriver during a vicious storm 70 or 80 years ago and ended up crashing onto the rocks upstream and destroying itself, and is only visible at low tide) but a shipwreck just the same.

Cheers,
Adam.

Is there a "coast guard" around the bend shaking down the cruise liners for protection money, so that kind of "accident" won't happen to them?

Menacing I tell you.

[Adam Went]

Louisa:

Love that expression!

And I agree with you that in some cases, governments will dribble on about the historic and tourist value of certain landmarks which are, in fact, rubbish. Happens all the time.

Errata:

There's a shipwreck in the mouth of a river nearby to me, where cruise ships pass to and fro every single day - not much of a shipwreck, I confess (a small cargo vessel which snapped its moorings at its port downriver during a vicious storm 70 or 80 years ago and ended up crashing onto the rocks upstream and destroying itself, and is only visible at low tide) but a shipwreck just the same.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Errata]

"I think those plasticized humans with exploded systems, Body Worlds are really beautiful when I go see them at the museum"

Whaaaat?

weird yes, but beautiful. look em up.

[louisa]

"I think those plasticized humans with exploded systems, Body Worlds are really beautiful when I go see them at the museum"

Whaaaat?



As for that shipwreck I think it's probably stayed where it is because the government don't want to spend money removing it. They're calling it 'a tourist attraction' instead.

[Errata]

Louisa & Errata:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

Cheers,
Adam.

I think beauty is much a function of context. I think those plasticized humans with exploded systems, Body Worlds are really beautiful when I go see them at the museum. If I found one in my closet, not so beautiful.

From the shore I think I would find it very fascinating. If I were on a cruise ship, somehow, it like being wheeled into surgery and on the way passing the dead guy coming out of surgery. Makes you rethink your options.

[louisa]

I prefer the expression 'Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder'

[Adam Went]

Louisa & Errata:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

That's probably why there will never be a Titanic II - who's going to be game enough to sail on the maiden voyage of a ship with that name!?

Despite all the advances in technology, ships still sink. I watched a docco not long ago about a ship which sank in rough seas in the 90's, the Estonia. Anyone remember that?

Cheers,
Adam.

[Errata]

An interesting link.

However I don't think I would describe it as an 'interesting feature for passing cruise ships' (can't remember the exact words). I'd describe it as a blot on an otherwise rather beautiful landscape.

It should be removed.

Interesting feature for passing cruise ships? More like a not so subtle threat about the dangers of sea travel, serving as a warning to passengers that this too could be your fate. If I saw that on a cruise I would get out and swim.

[louisa]

An interesting link.

However I don't think I would describe it as an 'interesting feature for passing cruise ships' (can't remember the exact words). I'd describe it as a blot on an otherwise rather beautiful landscape.

It should be removed.

[Zodiac]

Hi all,

Just thought that you might possibly find this one of some interest, I happened to stumble upon it while researching something quite unconnected with this thread.

http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2011/07/world-discoverer-solomon-islands-cruise-ship-wreck/

Best wishes,
Zodiac.

[Adam Went]

Kensei:

Yes that's right, Calamai was determined not to leave the Andrea Doria - it would have been a painful ship to go down with, given she took 11 hours to sink. He never, ever forgave himself for what happened that night. There wasn't a huge amount of casualties in that sinking (well under 100, IIRC) and many of those who died were either trapped or killed outright by the impact with the Stockholm.

Jason:

Ok, perhaps I got a bit carried away with the challenge for the Blue Riband, but the point is that an early arrival in port would have been the icing on the cake for the maiden voyage, and that combined with a bit of over-confidence might have assisted in the eventual demise of the ship.

I just did a check, and it was Cunard Line's Mauretania (sister to Lusitania and my favourite four-funnelled steamer, the Aquitania) which held the Blue Riband at the time of the Titanic sinking.

Jeff:

I agree with you that there's some big Edwardian names who didn't make the crossing but obviously everybody couldn't be on the ship at the same time. Those who were on board were right at the top of the list and they brought scandal with them too in some cases, like J.J. Astor and his pregnant young bride.

The Titanic voyage had everything that a major Hollywood event of 2011 would have.

Churchill wasn't that big of a deal at the time - what was he in 1912? I know he was First Lord of the Admiralty when the Lusitania sunk....

Don't forget the movers and shakers of society at the time as well - aside from W.T. Stead -the likes of Molly Brown and Helen Churchill Candee.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Errata]

I grew up on that one. My grandfather said that at that time Coast Guard aviators were joking that it would be the perfect place for a ship to to need rescuing, because there as far as he could tell, all of them were bunched up in the Caribbean in empty planes and helicopters waiting for the next Cuban boat lift or airlift to be called. The whole area was completely littered with Coast Guard.

But they were rendered useless by the the fact that no distress call was sounded until the Finnpulp saw the blaze, and the reason they couldn't get through to USCG Nassau was because there was a boat lift that night. They got Miami, who sent out two planes, and Puerto Rico I think sent out two as well, and by the time they got there there was nothing to be done. The rescue boats had as much support as they could ever ask for, but the Yarmouth Castle and whoever was onboard were lost. Evidently the pilots had a hell of a time staying over the site because the heat from the ship was so intense it was knocking the planes out of the sky. My grandfather was escorting the boat lift, so all he could do was listen. There's a story that the first Coast Guard aviator to land on the Finnpulp was from Louisiana and walked right up to the Captain and hexed him... and while I love the sentiment, it would seem more likely that if there was a confrontation, it would have been a fist meets face thing. But they were all furious. That rescue should have been like shooting fish in a barrel, but because no one bothered to sound any alarm to anyone, it was a slaughter.

[louisa]

This is a link about the ill-fated Yarmouth Castle. Another case of anything that could go wrong did go wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Yarmouth_Castle

[Mayerling]

Hey all,

Jason:

It's quite possible that the lady passenger was mistaken in what she heard, or that she lied outright, but it just has a certain ring of truth to it I think....Smith wouldn't have been overly hard to sway, he had been known to state in the months leading up to the Titanic's maiden voyage that: "I cannot conceive a situation which would cause a ship to founder. Modern shipbuilding has gone beyond that." Furthermore, it was his last voyage, the first voyage of Titanic, the jewel in the crown of White Star Line, the icing on the cake would have been a record arrival time in New York City and a challenge for the coveted Blue Riband....

I don't think that they deliberately sailed too fast without considering the safety of those on board, just that they allowed themselves to believe that the threat of a bit of ice was nothing to a mammoth ship like Titanic with all of her safety features.

Phil:

Yes, as others have outlined, Smith could be seen as being accident prone. But he was also known as the "Millionaire's Captain" and was incredibly popular with those sorts of passengers, the big names who the WSL were trying to lure with their fame and big dollars.

And it worked too - the list of first class passengers is a roll call of everybody who was somebody in Edwardian society.

As for the story of Smith swimming to a lifeboat with a child, it's plausible but perhaps not that likely - Smith went down with the ship but it's possible he was thwarted by a sudden lurch or something similar which threw him off the bridge, which is what happened to William Turner, Captain of the Lusitania a few years later....except he survived.

Cheers,
Adam.

Hi Adam,

I don't think Ismay and Captain Smith really thought they could achieve a Blue Riband, but they probably wanted as fast an early a crossing as a sign of better things for the new ship.

One thing about the cream of society image. Yes Titanic had John Jacob Astor IV and Isidor Strauss (owner of Macy's) and Benjamin Guggenheim (of the Copper Smelting fortune) on board, along with Ismay, and the journalist Stead, the mystery novelist Futrelle, the artist Frank Millet, and the military attache to Presidents Roosevelt and Taft, Major Butt. But it lacked any major members of Britain's aristocracy (not Sir Cosmo Duff Gordon or the Countess of Rothe) or an major normal novelists (no Conrad or Wells or Bennett or Anatol France type) or politicians (no Asquith, Lloyd George, or Churchill or Edward Grey). Also a number of names pulled out of the first sailing:

J. P Morgan was in France but decided against going on the first trip - despite his creation of White Star's new parent company I. M. M.

Henry Clay Frick of the Pittsburgh steel fortune (and later the creator of the charming Frick collection museum in New York and a similar art collection museum in Pittsburgh) cancelled because his new cook got ill, and he was bringing the cook with him to the U. S.

Alfred Gwynne Vanderbilt I cancelled for personal reasons - he was far less lucky three years later returning to England in May 1915 in the Lusitania.

Henry Adams, in the midst of writing his last major works of history and autobiography, had tickets for the returning voyage (the first New York to Southampton trip) when the disaster occurred. Adams was always finding symbolism in thngs - he compared the disaster to the current Taft Administration (which seemed headed for disaster at the polls). Adams had a mild stroke in the later spring.

Somehow those names with the earlier ones might justify the "cream of society" idea a bit more, especially Morgan and Frick. There was, by the way, a first class gentleman named Martin Rothschild who died too,but he was not from the international banking family. I believe he came from Brooklyn.

Jeff