Move to Murder: Who Killed Julia Wallace?

[Herlock Sholmes]

And the fact that he was told twice specifically that Menlove Gardens East didn’t exist (once by a policeman) and yet he still carried on looking. Cue Rod to mention that the policeman said that he might try Menlove Avenue - but that’s not really relevant as Wallace knew absolutely that the message had said Menlove Gardens East because he repeated it back to Beattie at the time as ‘West’ and Beattie stressed ‘no East.’ So Wallace knew that there had been no error and that he wasn’t looking for Menlove Avenue.

By the way Rodders I can’t remember - did Wallace actually try 25 Menlove Avenue?

[RodCrosby]

Is badgering transportation service personnel really a good way to establish an alibi?

And of course, the alibi - according to the Police case itself - did not depend on the red-herring of the trams and the mythical Menlove Gardens East, anyhow.

It depended on...

a milk-boy randomly arriving at precisely the time to permit Wallace to launch a traceless homicidal attack with superhuman rapidity and efficiency, and yet still arrive at the corner of Menlove Gardens West at exactly the same time he would have arrived if he was entirely innocent...

Savour that IMPROBABILITY...

And the sheer malice and incompetence of the Liverpool Police...

[etenguy]

And of course, the alibi - according to the Police case itself - did not depend on the red-herring of the trams and the mythical Menlove Gardens East, anyhow.

It depended on...

a milk-boy randomly arriving at precisely the time to permit Wallace to launch a traceless homicidal attack with superhuman rapidity and efficiency, and yet still arrive at the corner of Menlove Gardens West at exactly the same time he would have arrived if he was entirely innocent...

Savour that IMPROBABILITY...

And the sheer malice and incompetence of the Liverpool Police...

Hi Rod

Maybe I have misunderstood, but I believe the milk-boy was expected and it was the usual time he was due, except he was running a little late (how late depends on how you interpret the testimonies, but about 20 minutes). If he had arrived on time, and Wallace was guilty (which I am not convinced he was), Wallace could have committed the murder and arrived at Menlove Gardens at a time that might be considered the time of an entirely innocent man. The milk boy being late possibly upset Wallace's timings but not sufficiently to make his arrival time at Menlove Gardens in any way suspicious. In fact, building in some contingency time into his plan in case the milk boy was late might be considered the forward thinking you would expect from a chess player.

[RodCrosby]

Hi eten

given what you/we/Wallace know about the rest of the case, what time would you/we/Wallace have aimed to arrive at Menlove Gardens for a 7.30pm appointment?

either innocent, or guilty posing as innocent, attracting the least suspicion?

[moste]

And the fact that he was told twice specifically that Menlove Gardens East didn’t exist (once by a policeman) and yet he still carried on looking. Cue Rod to mention that the policeman said that he might try Menlove Avenue - but that’s not really relevant as Wallace knew absolutely that the message had said Menlove Gardens East because he repeated it back to Beattie at the time as ‘West’ and Beattie stressed ‘no East.’ So Wallace knew that there had been no error and that he wasn’t looking for Menlove Avenue.

By the way Rodders I can’t remember - did Wallace actually try 25 Menlove Avenue?

No I believe he tried 25 Menlove Gardens west... south, and north, only had even numbered houses.

[RodCrosby]

No I believe he tried 25 Menlove Gardens west... south, and north, only had even numbered houses.

Correct, moste. He tried 25 Menlove Gardens West [the lady answered the door], then traversed North and South, discovering there were only even numbers there...

[moste]

Hi!

I am not at all familiar with this murder, but the posts are teasing me into buying the book.

Just my two cents:

Is badgering transportation service personnel really a good way to establish an alibi?

If we go to the extreme, a New York Gangster would have been having lunch with his parish priest at the right time. Granted this guy is in no position to act that 'professionally,' but badgering a few conductors and hoping they will step forward and ID you seems to me a risky alibi; I would expect a well planned murder to create an alibi that would guarantee a witness.

Greetings APerno. And welcome, from one beautiful area of N.America to another.

As well as the other alibi's cemented in place, across the street from the newsagents, Wallace also visited a post office just before they closed at 8.oo pm. making the issue for the umpteenth time that he was not familiar with the area , and requesting a look at the post offices directory. Finally ,seemingly satisfied that the address he was given was,(as had been explained to him at least 3 previous times) non existent. sets off for home.

[etenguy]

Hi eten

given what you/we/Wallace know about the rest of the case, what time would you/we/Wallace have aimed to arrive at Menlove Gardens for a 7.30pm appointment?

either innocent, or guilty posing as innocent, attracting the least suspicion?

Given his constant reiteration that he did not know where Menlove Gardens East was and assuming he would state that he wanted to arrive at his appointment on time, I would have thought arriving in the approximate area at about 7.00pm would seem ideal.

[RodCrosby]

OLIVER KC: Did Mr. Wallace ever suggest to you that he did not know Menlove Avenue ?
BEATTIE: No.

WALSH (junior prosecutor): Was there some discussion then as to where this address was ?
CAIRD: Yes.

WALSH: Did you hear Mr. Beattie say anything to the accused as to where it was ?
CAIRD: It was at Menlove Gardens East.

WALSH: Did you hear him say where Menlove Gardens East was, or Menlove Avenue ?
CAIRD: He was trying to explain he did not know where Menlove Gardens East was. As a matter of fact, nobody in the Club knew where Menlove Gardens East was, but we knew it was in the Menlove Avenue district.

WALSH: Anything else ?
CAIRD: Then we discussed about going out to Menlove Gardens East, and I proposed that he should go on the bus from Queen’s Drive, but he said he would take the most direct course and go into town, and from there out to Menlove Avenue.

OLIVER KC: Had you ever suggested to anybody that you had never heard of Menlove Avenue ?
WALLACE: No. I knew there was such a place, quite well.

[moste]

And the fact that he was told twice specifically that Menlove Gardens East didn’t exist (once by a policeman) and yet he still carried on looking. Cue Rod to mention that the policeman said that he might try Menlove Avenue - but that’s not really relevant as Wallace knew absolutely that the message had said Menlove Gardens East because he repeated it back to Beattie at the time as ‘West’ and Beattie stressed ‘no East.’ So Wallace knew that there had been no error and that he wasn’t looking for Menlove Avenue.

By the way Rodders I can’t remember - did Wallace actually try 25 Menlove Avenue?

Interesting question though.

I was just refreshing my memory of the Menlove Gds. triangle, using Google Earth. and quite an odd thing, given what Wallace tells us of his traversing the neighbourhood. Why didn't he try Menlove Avenue number 25,?
Its at the south end of Menlove Gardens west, turning right onto the Avenue and only three houses along.

[RodCrosby]

Interesting question though.

I was just refreshing my memory of the Menlove Gds. triangle, using Google Earth. and quite an odd thing, given what Wallace tells us of his traversing the neighbourhood. Why didn't he try Menlove Avenue number 25,?
Its at the south end of Menlove Gardens west, turning right onto the Avenue and only three houses along.

When the Constable suggested this, Wallace was already some considerable distance away, on Allerton Road. He elected instead to search a directory at the nearby Post Office/Newsagents. Finding nothing, he decided to give up and go home.

[APerno]

Greetings APerno. And welcome, from one beautiful area of N.America to another.

As well as the other alibi's cemented in place, across the street from the newsagents, Wallace also visited a post office just before they closed at 8.oo pm. making the issue for the umpteenth time that he was not familiar with the area , and requesting a look at the post offices directory. Finally ,seemingly satisfied that the address he was given was,(as had been explained to him at least 3 previous times) non existent. sets off for home.

OK, so his badgering was quite extensive and at multiple locations; I take it then for those that think him guilty his behavior is judged as over-kill.

[RodCrosby]

OK, so his badgering was quite extensive and at multiple locations; I take it then for those that think him guilty his behavior is judged as over-kill.

For an insurance agent, with a scent of a hefty commission?

Well...

in a unique act (one of several in this case), after he was arrested, Wallace's insurance trade union held a secret mock trial in London, heard all the evidence for prosecution and defence, held a secret ballot, and unanimously decided to defray the cost of Wallace's legal defence with union funds...

We might suppose that they, in 1931, had a good handle on what sounded like a plausible or implausible story...

[moste]

OK, so his badgering was quite extensive and at multiple locations; I take it then for those that think him guilty his behavior is judged as over-kill.

Your not wrong there . Major over kill. In fact, so meticulous was his contriving for alibi's ,on his journey to, and his entire visit in the Allerton area, well, its just too much to ignore.

[moste]

No I believe he tried 25 Menlove Gardens west... south, and north, only had even numbered houses.

After exhausting all possibilities that Menlove Gardens east existed, including a further confirmation from a Mrs. Mather at 25 Menlove Gardens west, that east she had never heard of, though north, and south are in the area. Turning out of the end of M.G.W Wallace stumbles onto Green Lane, number 34 half way along was the home of Mr. Crewe , his supervisor at the 'Prudential' who had given Wallace a number of violin lessens 3 years before. Crewe wasn't home, when Wallace rang the bell. But what if he had been? here we would have Wallace being invited in for a cup of tea and a bit of a chat, where Wallace again tells his story of his search for M.G.E.
only to be told yet again 'it doesn't exist.' The question here is ,when the phantom Qualtrough, gives Beattie the address to pass along, does he give the area, i.e, Allerton? because if he didn't and I don't believe he did, It would seem to me to be suspicious .If he had said Allerton, Wallace would no doubt have recalled his involvement with Crewe in that location and made sure he spoke with him first thing in the morning at the office.
Anyway Crewe wasn't home, so Wallace continues on to the end of Green Lane meeting the cop on the way. The officer couldn't help but directs Wallace to the post office and/or the newsagents, on Allerton road. after more discussions at these shops, he heads home ,catching a tram, on the corner of Allerton road and Garthdale, where the old Plaza cinema was. To be fair, Wallace wont have been involved with the Menlove end of Green lane when visiting Crewe 3 years before, assuming Allerton road was his route. Incidentally there was apparently another witness identified for Wallace, a Mr. Sydney Green, in Dudlow lane, he stopped and spoke with Wallace , he knew the area well ,but didn't know of a Menlove Gardens East.
I mean to say. There are enough alibi's for five murders on this little trek