JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[GBinOz]

There's a crazy theory, apparently debunked, that while Oswald was indeed attempting to assassinate Kennedy, the fatal shot was 'friendly fire' from a Secret Service agent traveling directly behind the presidential car; the theory goes that the agent had been issued a new and unfamiliar firearm that week, and embarrassed by this mishap, the government hushed it up.

I casually ran this past a friend of mine who has studied the case in far, far greater detail than I ever have, and he dismissed it at once. Maybe some here have heard about it. I don't endorse it--I just never heard about it until recently.

The odds seem a little...remote.

Hi Roger,

That was titled "Mortal Error" by Bonar Menninger, and was the book I discovered in the $2 sale bin. I admit that I only skimmed through it but it didn't impress me.

Cheers, George

[FISHY1118]

Not surprised you couldn't determine its content

[FISHY1118]

I’ve got a lifelong fondness for Laurel and Hardly. They were incompetent at everything but always funny and I’m starting to feel the same way about our brilliant conspirators. I mean come on…..it’s comedy gold.


Not only did they stupidly, after all of this multi-level planning, leave the wrong type of rifle lying on the 6th floor which they proceeded to display to the entire world but they also planted a bullet on a stretcher at Parkland hospital, forgetting to bash it about a bit first so that no one could question whether it was genuine or not (or perhaps they hoped that no one would check? After all, it was only the murder of the most powerful man in the world so who’d have thought that an autopsy would have happened?) Then they forged 4 photographs of Oswald with his guns not realising that they might be examined to see if they were genuine then they completely forgot that there was 4 and not 3, leaving one to turn up in 1977 with Oswald’s writing on the back. Then they left it to absolute chance that no other employee saw him, even for a second, anywhere other than the 6th floor at the time of the assassination. Even clowns deserve a bit of luck but this one is at lottery win level. Then, would you Adan and Eve it, that idiot Oswald forgets to leave his curtain rods on the 6th floor allowing all those crazy single gunmen people to think: “hey, I wonder if this guy might have lied about his abiding interest in interior decor?” Then to cap it off, our poor, hapless, innocent, gullible lamb Lee goes and agrees to carry a few cards in his wallet with the name of a non-existent person which he didn’t realise might have been seen as a tad suspicious (especially when it’s discovered that the same non-exist and person ordered the rifle that shot Kennedy and the revolver that shot Tippit.) Then the poor sap makes himself look guilty by lying about eating his lunch with Junior Jarman and then even guiltier by fleeing the scene of an assassination in the strangest manner imaginable.


These high level agency Conspirators……you just can’t rely on them for a decent plot can you?


Cue The Cuckoo Song. “Well, here’s another nice mess they got Oswald into.”

Oh dear were back on the curtain rods and bustop thinking. You exactly the type of person the warren commission knew would believe its garbage report , luck for them there are millions of you.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Oh dear were (we’re) back on the curtain rods and bustop thinking. You (You’re) exactly the type of person the warren (Warren) commission (Commission) knew would believe its (it’s) garbage report , luck (lucky) for them there are millions of you.

Always glad to help.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes, and the tapes were claimed to be destroyed yet others claim to have heard them later and reached the same conclusion: that the crap speaker of pidgen Russian was not Oswald.

HS is freely entitled to dismiss evidence same as anyone else but he has to be careful. One point he makes against the conspiracy is that it would have involved too many people to have survived the challenge of time: doctoring photos, medical records, editing witness statements etc. Yet in order to discredit the 'Oswald impersonated in Mexico City' story he is walking into that same quagmire of a vast conspiracy involving J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI agents who heard the tapes, the operatives who transcribed the tapes, presumably the CIA chief in Mexico City and a few embassy staff as well who described someone quite different from Oswald. That's before we search for the imaginary 'companion' of Oswald who, according to Bugliosi, might have been impersonating him. I thought Oswald was a disaffected loner? It's starting to get complicated.

The Mexico City story is a real problem for those who accept the LG theory since it flags up a conspiracy of some sort. And according to them there was no conspiracy so it is difficult to handle.

So Hoover knew and could recognise Oswald’s voice? Even the people that transcribed the case could recognise Oswald’s voice? Did Oswald have a song in the charts that I don’t know about?

I compiled a very long list of evidence, including numerous witnesses (even including Cubans and Russians) who showed that Oswald was in Mexico City. But you would rather dismiss all of that in favour of a voice on a tape?

Bugliosi didn’t make any claim about a companion. Not one single person saw Oswald with anyone else in Mexico City. Unlike conspiracy theorists Bugliosi allowed for the possibility, however remote, that someone at some point used Oswald’s paperwork. That’s all.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Still no meaningful response on Oswald proven lie about the curtain rods? I’ll quote the title of a book by one of the looniest of conspiracist loonies, Charles Crenshaw, there appears to be a ‘conspiracy of silence’ on those damned curtain rods.

Goodnight all.

[GBinOz]

Simple question for everyone - Kennedy and Connally were demonstrated by film taken from the TSBD window in a re-enactment, to have been in alignment for a bullet passing through Kennedy to strike Connally. One bullet went through Kennedy's flesh only. Why didn't it hit Connally, and what happened to it?

Hi Doc,

A good question, but certainly not a simple one.

The answer is clouded by the fact that the Secret Service destroyed vital evidence. When JFK's body was taken to the trauma room the Presidential Limousine began being surrounded by people who saw a bullet hole in the windscreen and a bullet dent in the chrome surround on the windscreen. One witness said she put her finger in the bullet hole in the windscreen. The Secret Service removed the vehicle and had the interior fully washed and cleaned and the windscreen replaced. Soon after, the vehicle was completely refurbished. Any opportunity to located projectiles or bullet damage in or to the vehicle was lost.

The first pathologist to examine JFK was Perry. He, and others, noticed a small entry wound in the President's throat which he enlarged for the tracheotomy. At Bethesda the doctors found the bullet wound in the President's back 6" below the shoulder line (T3) but, not knowing about the throat wound (they hadn't spoken to anyone at Parklands), which was obliterated by the tracheotomy, they claimed the bullet was still in the body. When the bullet was found on the stretcher they claimed that it had fallen out of JFK during the heart massage. This is the information conveyed to LBJ by Hoover that I posted earlier. Later when it was found that there were more wounds than could be accounted for by three shots, the story changed to the bullet falling out of Connolly's thigh. But after it's dubious discovery there were some problems with the chain of custody. The SS agents and FBI agents had to log a time and place for when the bullet came into their possession, and scratch their initials on the surface. Later it was discovered that the men on the list claimed to have not seen the bullet and there are initials missing on CE 399. This was the magic bullet that allegedly accounted for seven wounds and reduced the need to only three shots.

Coming back to your question, here is my opinion based on the medical and eye witness accounts. The throat wound was from the front. The first shot from the rear missed and hit the kerb, and fragments of bullet and/or concrete hit James Tague. There was a shot that put a skid mark on a manhole cover and lodged in the grass. This bullet was removed by a blond agent who never handed it in. There are a series of photos that show him examining the skid mark, picking up the bullet and putting it in his pocket. The skid mark's direction indicated it came from the Records Building and years later when the roof was repaired a cartridge case was found lodged in a crack. The next shot from the rear hit JFK in the back and he slumped over to the left onto Jackie. The next shot from the rear hit Connolly. The fatal shot came from the front left, through JFK's temple and blew out the right occipital. There were eighteen doctors and nurses who described these wounds (before the chain of custody was broken when the body left Parklands) and eighty eight witnesses (some of whom were only feet from JFK when the fatal shot hit) said there were shots from the grassy knoll. If you watch the video of the president's press secretary near the time of JFK's death indicating where the fatal shot came from, he points to his right temple. There is now a suggestion using the expertly synchronised ZP/Audio file that there may have been another shot from the rear 0.7 seconds after the fatal shot.

You might expect a rebuttal from those who weren't even born at the time along the lines of "no, no, no,...the doctors, nurses and eye witnesses were all lying or mistaken, I know the truth and can prove it, 100%...... there were these curtain rods, you see.."

Sorry to be long winded, but I hope I addressed your question.

Cheers, George

[cobalt]

Oswald's voice can be heard in a radio interview, a TV interview and of course his midnight news conference in Dallas. Nobody is discussing Oswald being in Mexico City. We are discussing Oswald being impersonated in Mexico City. Which is a bit of a conspiracy.

[cobalt]

I would regard Bill Newman as a reliable witness since he was interviewed within minutes of the assassination. A 22 year old man his faculties fully intact, he believed that there were three shots: one hit Kennedy in the back, one hit Connally and one dispatched Kennedy. He was 15 feet from the car and his wife said similar. Like Sam Holland on the triple overpass, another convincing witness although he claimed to have heard four shots, Newman described the President's body as flipping over on itself after the crucial shot. Newman thought that the shots came from behind him in the area of the grassy knoll, as did Holland.

What is important is that Newman had no opportunity to see the Zapruder film when he gave his first interviews. Yet his account is very much in line with what the Zapruder film showed when released to the public several years later. (The Zapruder film was not considered by the Warren Commission since it was judged to have 'no evidentiary value.)

Newman has always been very cautious in his theories, believing with some humility that he has more value as an honest witness rather than a pundit. He respected the FBI agents who interviewed him and believed they were seeking the truth. He believed the same about Mark Lane and Jim Garrison whom he also respected.

[GBinOz]

Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
Oh dear were (we’re) back on the curtain rods and bustop thinking. You (You’re) exactly the type of person the warren (Warren) commission (Commission) knew would believe its (it’s) garbage report , luck (lucky) for them there are millions of you.

Always glad to help.

Well, aren't you the clever little secretary. More insults. Weren't you the one blubbering about someone using the word Schizophrenic?

Certainly not a master of wit and repartee, a master of denigration and repetition perhaps.

Kindly do not anticipate that I will be responding to any more of your noxious posts.

[GBinOz]

I would regard Bill Newman as a reliable witness since he was interviewed within minutes of the assassination. A 22 year old man his faculties fully intact, he believed that there were three shots: one hit Kennedy in the back, one hit Connally and one dispatched Kennedy. He was 15 feet from the car and his wife said similar. Like Sam Holland on the triple overpass, another convincing witness although he claimed to have heard four shots, Newman described the President's body as flipping over on itself after the crucial shot. Newman thought that the shots came from behind him in the area of the grassy knoll, as did Holland.

What is important is that Newman had no opportunity to see the Zapruder film when he gave his first interviews. Yet his account is very much in line with what the Zapruder film showed when released to the public several years later. (The Zapruder film was not considered by the Warren Commission since it was judged to have 'no evidentiary value.)

Newman has always been very cautious in his theories, believing with some humility that he has more value as an honest witness rather than a pundit. He respected the FBI agents who interviewed him and believed they were seeking the truth. He believed the same about Mark Lane and Jim Garrison whom he also respected.

Very relevant post Cobalt. Curious that the WC didn't interview him. Maybe he didn't know anything about curtain rods?

Cheers, George

[FISHY1118]

Always glad to help.

Thanks.

[FISHY1118]

Still no meaningful response on Oswald proven lie about the curtain rods? I’ll quote the title of a book by one of the looniest of conspiracist loonies, Charles Crenshaw, there appears to be a ‘conspiracy of silence’ on those damned curtain rods.

Goodnight all.

No meaning response to ''Proven Facts'' about the magic bullet and the 3 fingerprint experts ? not to mention Audrey Bell !! .

[FISHY1118]

Hi Doc,

A good question, but certainly not a simple one.

The answer is clouded by the fact that the Secret Service destroyed vital evidence. When JFK's body was taken to the trauma room the Presidential Limousine began being surrounded by people who saw a bullet hole in the windscreen and a bullet dent in the chrome surround on the windscreen. One witness said she put her finger in the bullet hole in the windscreen. The Secret Service removed the vehicle and had the interior fully washed and cleaned and the windscreen replaced. Soon after, the vehicle was completely refurbished. Any opportunity to located projectiles or bullet damage in or to the vehicle was lost.

The first pathologist to examine JFK was Perry. He, and others, noticed a small entry wound in the President's throat which he enlarged for the tracheotomy. At Bethesda the doctors found the bullet wound in the President's back 6" below the shoulder line (T3) but, not knowing about the throat wound (they hadn't spoken to anyone at Parklands), which was obliterated by the tracheotomy, they claimed the bullet was still in the body. When the bullet was found on the stretcher they claimed that it had fallen out of JFK during the heart massage. This is the information conveyed to LBJ by Hoover that I posted earlier. Later when it was found that there were more wounds than could be accounted for by three shots, the story changed to the bullet falling out of Connolly's thigh. But after it's dubious discovery there were some problems with the chain of custody. The SS agents and FBI agents had to log a time and place for when the bullet came into their possession, and scratch their initials on the surface. Later it was discovered that the men on the list claimed to have not seen the bullet and there are initials missing on CE 399. This was the magic bullet that allegedly accounted for seven wounds and reduced the need to only three shots.

Coming back to your question, here is my opinion based on the medical and eye witness accounts. The throat wound was from the front. The first shot from the rear missed and hit the kerb, and fragments of bullet and/or concrete hit James Tague. There was a shot that put a skid mark on a manhole cover and lodged in the grass. This bullet was removed by a blond agent who never handed it in. There are a series of photos that show him examining the skid mark, picking up the bullet and putting it in his pocket. The skid mark's direction indicated it came from the Records Building and years later when the roof was repaired a cartridge case was found lodged in a crack. The next shot from the rear hit JFK in the back and he slumped over to the left onto Jackie. The next shot from the rear hit Connolly. The fatal shot came from the front left, through JFK's temple and blew out the right occipital. There were eighteen doctors and nurses who described these wounds (before the chain of custody was broken when the body left Parklands) and eighty eight witnesses (some of whom were only feet from JFK when the fatal shot hit) said there were shots from the grassy knoll. If you watch the video of the president's press secretary near the time of JFK's death indicating where the fatal shot came from, he points to his right temple. There is now a suggestion using the expertly synchronised ZP/Audio file that there may have been another shot from the rear 0.7 seconds after the fatal shot.

You might expect a rebuttal from those who weren't even born at the time along the lines of "no, no, no,...the doctors, nurses and eye witnesses were all lying or mistaken, I know the truth and can prove it, 100%...... there were these curtain rods, you see.."

Sorry to be long winded, but I hope I addressed your question.

Cheers, George

Spot on George

[GBinOz]

Hi cobalt,

Another close proximity witness was Charles Brehm who was standing with his five year old son next to Jean Hill and Mary Moorman about fifteen to twenty feet from the President. He said he heard one shot after the headshot. Jean Hill said she heard a total of 4 or five shots.

Cheers, George