JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Joshua Rogan]

Watching your video link doco George, Fantastic , esp the part at the 12 00 min point where it is clearly shown that the 3 spent cartridges were found on the S E corner and the German mauser rifle was found in the S W corner exactly where the Rowlands said they saw a man with a rifle .

Question, why fire 3 shots from one corner, leave the shell casing there then stash the Rifle all the over in the other corner ? Answer you just dont .

But nobody did leave the rifle there. The police clearly stated that the rifle was found by the stairs in the North West corner, not the South West window?
Which indicates that the shooter left it there on his exit from the floor, whichever window he shot from.

[Joshua Rogan]

In 1963 Weitzman and another officer said that "Mauser 7.62" was stamped on the barrel. If you sign a statutory declaration you should be certain of the contents.

Enter stage left the Warren Commission . We all know what happenned after that .

Wasn't the Mauser 7.65 calibre? In which case, the police statements are wrong either way.

[FISHY1118]

But nobody did leave the rifle there. The police clearly stated that the rifle was found by the stairs in the North West corner, not the South West window?
Which indicates that the shooter left it there on his exit from the floor, whichever window he shot from.

You might have to show where that is jr i have it as the SW corner .

[cobalt]

Fishy,

I’d be interested in your opinion about how the Carcano was linked to the shooting. Was it planted as a decoy along with the actual weapon? Or were there two shooters from the same floor? I vaguely recall some rumour about a rifle being found on the roof of the building.

[FISHY1118]

Wasn't the Mauser 7.65 calibre? In which case, the police statements are wrong either way.

The fact he claimed and stated it was a Mauser 7.6 , 2 or 5 regardless its a dam sight more relevant that an italian carcano dont you think ?

But ill go with his sworn affidavit of ''7.65 '' in 1963

[Joshua Rogan]

You might have to show where that is jr i have it as the SW corner .

George's post #202, for starters.

[Joshua Rogan]

The fact he claimed and stated it was a Mauser 7.6 , 2 or 5 regardless its a dam sight more relevant that an italian carcano dont you think ?

But ill go with his sworn affidavit of ''7.65 '' in 1963

Details are important to get right. Sadly, not everyone does all the time.

[FISHY1118]

Fishy,

I’d be interested in your opinion about how the Carcano was linked to the shooting. Was it planted as a decoy along with the actual weapon? Or were there two shooters from the same floor? I vaguely recall some rumour about a rifle being found on the roof of the building.

Good question , ive just recently been researching that exact outcome, its my view is that after the Mauser could not be linked to LHO as the same one he ordererd via his mail order catalog, the Dallas police dept searched Oswalds house and either found or were given his Carcano rifle by a person/s unknown [clears throat] Ruth Paine .

Hence the Mauser was never seen again and the Italian carcarno took its place .

[Aethelwulf]

George's post #202, for starters.

Perhaps you should provide some point by point comparisons of these guns. Having looked up images of the gun taken from the building and LHO's, including him holding it, they look the same.

[FISHY1118]

Perhaps you should provide some point by point comparisons of these guns. Having looked up images of the gun taken from the building and LHO's, including him holding it, they look the same.

12 .13 sec into Georges youtube link , 1. 4x18 scope , 2. inverted groove down both sides of the weapon , 3. strap clips on the weapon are on the side of the rifle butt and top of the rifle. This is the German Mauser ,

Oswalds weapon 4x3/4'' scope , no grooves on the side of the rifle , strap clips on the underside of the rifle butt also at the other end underside clip This is the Italian cancarno

There different weapons .

[FISHY1118]

George's post #202, for starters.

Georges post of that affidavit makes no mention of the northwest corner . Can you provide something a little more accurate .

[Herlock Sholmes]

Heres the problem with all that dave , its easy to say that after such a long perion of time after the assassination, but focus on the day and the footage. Look at the rifle being removed from the tsbd and look at oswalds cancarno, the one they said he fired to kill kennedy , the one he ordered via mail order , the one with the serial number , and p.o box address receipt .? what do you see ?

The same rifle.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Good question , ive just recently been researching that exact outcome, its my view is that after the Mauser could not be linked to LHO as the same one he ordererd via his mail order catalog, the Dallas police dept searched Oswalds house and either found or were given his Carcano rifle by a person/s unknown [clears throat] Ruth Paine .

Hence the Mauser was never seen again and the Italian carcarno took its place .

Because the Mauser never existed. It was an error as clearly stated by investigators.

[FISHY1118]

Because the Mauser never existed. It was an error as clearly stated by investigators.

Yer well you just keep on believing that . Its been clearly proven otherwise , buy of course you not interested ,so there no need for you to worry about it hey.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I just found this in an unmarked folder. I think that I did it with the intention of posting it when the thread initially started up. I’d forgotten that I had it. It’s from Reclaiming History and is just a summary of a short chapter where he lists 53 points that point to Oswald’s guilt. Apologies for the long post but I shortened it as much as I could.

1. Whenever Oswald asked Frazier to drive him to the Paine residence to see his wife and daughters it was on a Friday every single time. But the day the President was coming (a Friday) he asked for a lift on the Thursday.
2. Oswald told Frazier that he was going to pick up curtain rods for his room but Oswald’s landlady said that his room already had curtain rods. A photographer for Life called Allen Grant took a photo of Oswald’s room on the afternoon of the assassination which showed curtain rods already in place. When asked Marina Oswald said that her husband never mentioned curtain rods and none were found at the Book Depository and those who saw him after the assassination, like his landlady for one, said that he was carrying no parcel. So what happened to it if it was a parcel headed for his rooming house? Additionally Ruth Paine did have curtain rods in her garage but they were still there after the assassination and Oswald never mentioned them to her.
3. Frazier asked Oswald if he would be going home with him tomorrow (Saturday) too and he said ‘no.’
4. Both Oswald and Marina had a real interest in the Kennedy’s but whenever she brought up the subject on the Thursday evening he either ignored her or changed the subject which she thought was strange.
5. On the morning of the assassination Oswald left behind his wedding ring and around $170 telling her to get anything the children needed. Again she thought this strange because he hardly ever let her spend any money at all and $170 was probably all the money that he had.
6. Before getting into the car he placed the long bulky package on the back seat saying that it contained curtain rods.
7. Frazier noticed that for the first time ever Oswald wasn’t carrying his lunch.
8. When they arrived at the Depository Oswald picked up the package and dashed into the building. He was 50 yards ahead of Frazier when he entered. Frazier said that they always walked the 300 yards from the car to the building together.
9. Every morning Oswald went to a first floor room to read the previous mornings Dallas Morning News but not on the day of the assassination.
10. Despite Oswald being politically savvy and particularly interested in Kennedy and that everyone new that the President was coming why, between 9.30 and 10.00, did he ask James Jarman why there was a crowd gathering outside? Everyone knew of the President’s visit, except Oswald apparently. He also asked him which way the President was coming. Clearly trying to distance himself from any plan to kill.
11. After the second shot Howard Brennan looked up and saw a man in the window just 120 feet away. He’d seen the same person earlier before the motorcade arrived. At a line up that h evening he said that it looked like him but he couldn’t be certain because he’d since seen him on TV and that it could have “messed me up.” He was worried that it might have influenced him but he signed a positive affidavit an hour before the line up saying that he believed that he could identify the man that he’d seen. His description of the man matched Oswald. Before the WC he admitted that he could have positively identified it but he became worried that if it was known that he was an eyewitness he and his family might have been at risk.
12. Witnesses other than Brennan saw a rifle sticking out of that window and by that window the gun that was used was found along with three cartridge casings from that same weapon.
13. Depository employee Charles Givens said that around 11.55 he saw Oswald on the 6th floor. He asked Oswald if he was going downstairs as it was near lunchtime and he said ‘no.’ He was the only person on the 6th floor. When Oswald met Baker just after the assassination in the second floor lunch room he told him that he’d just come up from the first floor lunch room to get a coke from the machine. Bugliosi asked Gary Mack, who was in charge of the TSBD museum if there was another drinks machine and he said that he wasn’t aware of one but from the testimony of Williams who said that he got a Dr. Pepper (which the coke machine didn’t sell) and from talking to Frazier, he discovered that there was actually a Dr. Pepper machine in the first floor lunch room. He later found a photo of it. Frazier had only ever seen Oswald drink Dr Pepper and it was mentioned elsewhere that he favoured Dr Pepper. Frazier said that no one would have gone to the second floor to get a drink because they had their own machine in their first floor lunch room. So Oswald came from the 6th to the 2nd and not the 1st to the 2nd as he claimed.
14. Also, if he was on the first floor when everything kicked off and people were screaming and shouting just outside who would just stroll upstairs for a bottle of coke?
15. When they did a roll call after the assassination only Oswald and Givens were missing from the TSBD. Givens was later located. The ‘innocent’ Oswald had fled.
16. When he left the building Oswald walked straight passed the bus stop that he always used and that would have dropped him almost directly in front of his rooming house. Instead he walked on and eventually caught a bus that would have left him half a mile from his rooming house even though the very next bus would have taken him to his front door.
17. Although Oswald was interested in politics and Kennedy why did he not watch the motorcade or stick around after the assassination?
18. When his bus got caught up in traffic after a few blocks he immediately got off demonstrating that he was a man in flight. In law flight is considered as circumstantial evidence of a consciousness of guilt.
19. He then got into a cab and when the driver asked him what was going on Oswald didn’t reply. How many people in that position would have stayed completely silent?
20. Why did Oswald get the can driver to drop him 4 blocks past his rooming house leaving him to walk all of the way back? Is this the action of an innocent man?
21. When he got to his rooming house he dashed passed the housekeeper who said “oh you are in a hurry.” Oswald completely ignored her.
22. Would an innocent man have picked up his revolver? When asked by the police why he had done this he said “You know how boys do when they have a gun, they just carry it.” Yeah, that really makes sense!
23. He also changed his trousers. Why?
24. Two witnesses actually saw Oswald shoot and kill Tippit. One witness saw him approach Tippit’s car but then couldn’t see him because a shrubbery blocked his view but he heard the shots and saw Tippit fall and saw Oswald run away with a gun in his hand. Another witness heard the shots then saw Oswald running along the street. Two witnesses identified Oswald as the man who ran across their lawn immediately after the gun shots and a woman screaming. He had a gun in his hand and was unloading shells. Four men on a car lot identified Oswald as he ran past with a revolver in his hand. One woman identified Oswald as the man who walked past her at a fast pace. How many cases could you find where 10 eyewitnesses were all wrong?
25. Within minutes of Tippit’s murder Oswald was seen looking dishevelled and acting strangely on Jefferson Boulevard.
26. Oswald ducked into the theatre without buying a ticket.
27. When Oswald was arrested he said “well it’s all over now.” Strange thing for an innocent man to say?
28. He then struck the Officer and pulled his gun. Why if he hadn’t done anything? He had a recently fired gun on him though.
29. When arrested, Oswald wouldn’t give his name. Innocent people usually co-operate when arrested.
30. When Oswald was led down the hallway he made a clenched fist salute. Why would an innocent man do that?
31. Why did Oswald refuse to take a lie detector test? Ruby took one.
32. After Marina came away from visiting Oswald she said that she knew that he was guilty and that she could see it in his eyes. She also said that she knew that if he was innocent he’d have been screaming to high heaven about his ‘rights.’ Marina knew him better than anyone and a wife’s first instinct is usually to defend her husband and the family name. Who wouldn’t want to try and deny being the husband of the man who killed the President?
33. The gun found on the 6th floor was purchased by Oswald. The paperwork was in his handwriting. There was a photograph of him holding the gun taken by Marina. His palm print was in a place that could only be reached by someone who had disassembled the gun and fibres found on the gun by the FBI matched Oswald’s shirt perfectly.
34. Firearms identification experts from the WC and the HSCA concluded that the 2 bullet fragments found in the limousine came from Oswald’s gun to the exclusion of all others. Also that the bullet found on the stretcher (believed to have been the one that Connolly lay on) matched Oswald’s gun to the exclusion of all others.
35. Firearms experts determined that the 3 expended shells found in by the southeasternmost window were fired in and ejected from Oswald’s gun to the exclusion of all others.
36. A large brown handmade bag of wrapping paper and tape of sufficient size to contain the disassembled rifle was found next to the cartridge cases. Oswald’s left index fingerprint and right palm print were found on the bag.
37. Oswald’s left palm print and right index finger print were found on top of a book carton next to the window which was placed at a convenient level for a gun rest. The prints were pointing in the direction of the limousine. A print of his right palm was found on top of another carton.
38. The revolver was purchased by Oswald and the order was in his handwriting.
39. Firearms experts conclude that the 4 bullets recovered from Tippit’s body came from Oswald’s revolver.
40. Four expended cartridges were found near to Tippit’s body which were found to have come from Oswald’s gun to the exclusion of all others.
41. Oswald’s hands were subjected to a paraffin test by Dallas Police to see if he’d recently fired a revolver. The test was positive.
42. Oswald left his jacket behind in the TSBD.
43. Oswald put on his other jacket when he got back to his rooming house but he wasn’t wearing it when he was arrested. It was found underneath a car on the route to the Texas Theatre. Fibres from Oswald’s shirt were found in the jacket.
44. Oswald’s clip board was found on the 6th floor with 3 orders on it for the day of the assassination. Oswald hadn’t filled any of his orders. He must have been busy doing something else perhaps?
45. When interviewed the ‘innocent’ Oswald denied owning a rifle. Why, if it hadn’t been used to assassinate the President?
46. When showed the photograph taken by his wife of him holding the weapon he said that it wasn’t him.
47. He claimed that he’d never seen the photograph before despite handwriting experts saying that it was his writing on the back.
48. When Oswald was asked to list his residences he did so but omitted one address, Neely Street, where the photograph was taken. And this wasn’t just a memory lapse either because he added3 months to his stay at his previous address to cover the Neely Street period.
49. Oswald denied telling Frazier about the curtain rods.
50. He also denied putting the package on the back seat but Frazier sister saw him do it too.
51. Oswald told Captain Fritz that the only thing that he took to work was his sandwich.
52. He told Fritz that at the time of the murder he was in the First floor dining room with a man called Jarman and one other man. Jarman said that Oswald wasn’t there.
53. Oswald told Fritz that he bought the revolver in Forth Worth when he actually bought it mail order.