JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

Something about "Splintering the CIA into a thousand pieces and scattering them into the wind".For one .

JFK after the failed bay of pigs episode .

According to an anonymous source in 1966, three years after JFK's assassination.

JFK was assassinated 2 1/2 years after the Bay of Pigs invasion. JFK did not destroy the CIA, he formed a Committee, the Cuba Study Group under General Taylor and including CIA head Dulles. In November, 1961 Dulles was forced to resign - JFK picked John McCone as his replacement. The Deputy Director had been replaced in early 1962. Robert Kennedy had been given oversight of Operation Mongoose

So 2 1/2 years, what would the CIA have gained from assassinating JFK? What goals would they have had that they believed were worth the risk of execution - goals they believed were impossible to get under JFK, probable to get under LBJ, and so urgent they couldn't wait till the next election.

[Fiver]

That's wrong.

There is plenty of evidence that Oswald spoke Russian well.

If there is evidence that Oswald spoke Russian well, feel free to share it.

[FISHY1118]

According to an anonymous source in 1966, three years after JFK's assassination.

JFK was assassinated 2 1/2 years after the Bay of Pigs invasion. JFK did not destroy the CIA, he formed a Committee, the Cuba Study Group under General Taylor and including CIA head Dulles. In November, 1961 Dulles was forced to resign - JFK picked John McCone as his replacement. The Deputy Director had been replaced in early 1962. Robert Kennedy had been given oversight of Operation Mongoose

So 2 1/2 years, what would the CIA have gained from assassinating JFK? What goals would they have had that they believed were worth the risk of execution - goals they believed were impossible to get under JFK, probable to get under LBJ, and so urgent they couldn't wait till the next election.

The cuban study group and operation mongoose have little to do with what Kennedy claimed he wanted to do to the CIA,

His quote/ threat was something he most likely would have done during his Administration

If it took 2 years or 3 it was something clearly had he on his agenda

The CIA would most probably be aware of this.

Given his popularity at the time I doubt very much Kennedy would have lost the 64 election ,more reason for the CIA would fear he would make good on his threat.

[Herlock Sholmes]

According to an anonymous source in 1966, three years after JFK's assassination.

JFK was assassinated 2 1/2 years after the Bay of Pigs invasion. JFK did not destroy the CIA, he formed a Committee, the Cuba Study Group under General Taylor and including CIA head Dulles. In November, 1961 Dulles was forced to resign - JFK picked John McCone as his replacement. The Deputy Director had been replaced in early 1962. Robert Kennedy had been given oversight of Operation Mongoose

So 2 1/2 years, what would the CIA have gained from assassinating JFK? What goals would they have had that they believed were worth the risk of execution - goals they believed were impossible to get under JFK, probable to get under LBJ, and so urgent they couldn't wait till the next election.

And despite this Kennedy remained on good terms with Allan Dulles. We also have to remember that after Kennedy’s death Johnson pushed on with civil rights much to the anger of people like his mentor Richard Russell (who didn’t want to work with Warren because of his liberal views on civil rights.) Russell was even unhappy that one of the senior lawyers on the commission was black.

If this was, as suggested, a commission set up purely to cover up a high level plot to murder the president wouldn’t we expect to see it largely staffed by right wing ‘Kennedy-haters’ or at least a majority who were opposed to his policies? This couldn’t have been further from the truth though. Almost all of the commission lawyers were liberal in outlook and politics and established Kennedy admirers. At least 2 of them worked on Kennedy’s campaign in their local areas. Warren himself was absolutely bereft at Kennedy’s death and saw him almost as a son. There’s even an independent record of hardline segregationist Russell being in tears when discussing the deceased president.

How would you persuade (and why would you) a Kennedy voter or admirer (or both) to be a part of this conspiracy? Just the act of asking would have been a massive risk. What if one of them had said no. You’re left with a man who was not on the commission but knew about it’s nefarious aims. And even if someone was brought into the commission thinking that it would be a fair investigation then there would still be the massive risk of them simply walking out leaving the most dangerous of loose cannons.

From reading the Shenon book it’s becoming obvious that, despite whatever failings there were and despite the possibility/certainty that groups like the CIA and the FBI concealed information, the commission was set up to look at the assassination honestly. There are too many examples of those involved being unhappy with certain things for it not to have been.

So I’m absolutely convinced that Oswald killed Kennedy alone. I’m open to the possibility that he was encouraged, and paid, to do it by (most likely) the Cubans. And I’m quite prepared to accept ‘cover-up’ but only in terms of the CIA and the FBI covering up things that would portray them in a poor light and that might have shown that they were in a position to have protected Kennedy better in regard to Oswald.

[FISHY1118]

The Warren Commission was set up for one reason only by LBJ ,its only purpose and function was to establish a Lone Assassin who fired 3 shots and killed President Kennedy based on the evidence that they were provided with at the time,

The fact, that a mountain of evidence also existed at the same time, that was in direct contradiction to what the WC used that never saw the light of day, is a massive problem to its credibility and accuracy regarding the assassination

Two members of the WC who wouldn't sign off on the Magic Bullet Theory didn't need persuading , even LBJ didn't believe it .
.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Then how does that equate to a conspiracy? If all of these committee members signed up to a corrupt commission why would there have been any dissent? If LBJ was determined to falsely prove that an innocent Oswald was guilty why would he express doubts? It makes no sense. And we have to be accurate here. None of them believed that Oswald didn’t shoot the President; they were unanimous on that. It’s just that it was the opinion 2 of them that Kennedy and Connally were hit by 2 different bullets so they felt that there must have been a second gunman. To hold an entirely corrupt commission would have been a physical impossibility. When you read how it was set up, what was involved, who were involved, how they went about it, the complaints they they had, and how many of them actually fully expected to find a conspiracy (and are in print having said so) you would see how impossible it would have been. This is why I’m current reading about the commission in a book not written by a lone gunman supporter or a conspiracy theorist…just a respected journalist who wanted to learn more about the Commission.

What particular pieces of evidence didn’t see the light of day?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

If there is evidence that Oswald spoke Russian well, feel free to share it.

You've done this before.

You have previously said to me, feel free to provide evidence about the prevailing view at Scotland Yard about the graffito and that there were no Jewish sailors.

I did.

As for Oswald's Russian-speaking ability, it is well-documented and I have cited much of the evidence for it.

Anyone can look it up.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You've done this before.

You have previously said to me, feel free to provide evidence about the prevailing view at Scotland Yard about the graffito and that there were no Jewish sailors.

I did.

As for Oswald's Russian-speaking ability, it is well-documented and I have cited much of the evidence for it.

Anyone can look it up.

And there is far, far more evidence that Oswald’s Russian wasn’t too good. Even during his stay in Russia effort was made to improve his language skills. He even made his wife speak to him only in Russian so that he could improve.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

There is plenty of evidence that Oswald pretended to have a poor knowledge of the Russian language while he was in the Soviet Union.

[Fiver]

The cuban study group and operation mongoose have little to do with what Kennedy claimed he wanted to do to the CIA,

His quote/ threat was something he most likely would have done during his Administration

If it took 2 years or 3 it was something clearly had he on his agenda

The CIA would most probably be aware of this.

Given his popularity at the time I doubt very much Kennedy would have lost the 64 election ,more reason for the CIA would fear he would make good on his threat.

The JFK "quote'' comes from an anonymous source three years after he died.

JFK spent 3 years doing nothing to dismantle the CIA. The top leadership was now JFK appointees. RFK had oversight on Operation Mongoose. JFK had no intention of disbanding the CIA.

What sort of person reasons that "The boss might fire me, but I can solve this problem by murdering the boss."?

As opposed to people who think "The boss might fire me, but if I work harder he probably won't."

Or "The boss might fire me, but if he does I can get another job."

Or "Crazy Harry said he wants to murder the boss. If I save the boss' life by turning in Crazy Harry, my job is secure and I'll probably get a promotion and a raise."

Even if suicidal homocidal mass insanity over a hallucination was common in the CIA, all it would take is one person reporting the plot to the NSA or the DIA for the plan to fail and the plotters not just be fired, but executed. And this risk doesn't go away until every single person who knows about the plot is dead.

So what would the CIA have gained from assassinating JFK? What goals would they have had that they believed were worth the risk of execution - goals they believed were impossible to get under JFK, probable to get under LBJ, and so urgent they couldn't wait till the next election?

JFK could have lost the next election. His approval ratings had been dropping through 1963. Leaking some of JFKs skeletons in the closet would have pushed it down even further. And if caught, the plotters only risked being fired instead of being executed for murder and treason.

[Fiver]

There is plenty of evidence that Oswald pretended to have a poor knowledge of the Russian language while he was in the Soviet Union.

There is plenty of evidence that Oswald showed a poor knowledge of the Russian language while he was in the USSR. Feel free to present any evidence that Oswald was only pretending to be poor at the language.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

There is plenty of evidence that Oswald showed a poor knowledge of the Russian language while he was in the USSR. Feel free to present any evidence that Oswald was only pretending to be poor at the language.

I already have.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I already have.

No you haven’t. I produced a lengthy post on here a while ago on Oswald’s record in learning Russian. All that I’ve seen from you is an assertion that evidence exists without producing the actual evidence. And rumours and hearsay doesn’t count.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The JFK "quote'' comes from an anonymous source three years after he died.

JFK spent 3 years doing nothing to dismantle the CIA. The top leadership was now JFK appointees. RFK had oversight on Operation Mongoose. JFK had no intention of disbanding the CIA.

What sort of person reasons that "The boss might fire me, but I can solve this problem by murdering the boss."?

As opposed to people who think "The boss might fire me, but if I work harder he probably won't."

Or "The boss might fire me, but if he does I can get another job."

Or "Crazy Harry said he wants to murder the boss. If I save the boss' life by turning in Crazy Harry, my job is secure and I'll probably get a promotion and a raise."

Even if suicidal homocidal mass insanity over a hallucination was common in the CIA, all it would take is one person reporting the plot to the NSA or the DIA for the plan to fail and the plotters not just be fired, but executed. And this risk doesn't go away until every single person who knows about the plot is dead.

So what would the CIA have gained from assassinating JFK? What goals would they have had that they believed were worth the risk of execution - goals they believed were impossible to get under JFK, probable to get under LBJ, and so urgent they couldn't wait till the next election?

JFK could have lost the next election. His approval ratings had been dropping through 1963. Leaking some of JFKs skeletons in the closet would have pushed it down even further. And if caught, the plotters only risked being fired instead of being executed for murder and treason.

I often wonder why ‘they’ didn’t take a bullet or two to assassination Johnson too? It’s regularly suggested that it was Kennedy’s support for Civil Rights that got him killed. That worked well then.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

No you haven’t.

I have.

It is on record.