Ripperologist 146 - October 2015

[GregBaron]

A terrific article on Hutchinson.


Gentle Ben must be thrilled...




Greg

[Abby Normal]

A terrific article on Hutchinson.


Gentle Ben must be thrilled...




Greg

Agree. Absolutely gobsmacked. All things tend to jibe.
I think this is the best case for finding the real hutch.

And a possible photo of Jack the ripper too boot! Shivers.

Plus I was struck at his departure from England-shortly after the Mckenzie murder whom I have been spouting lately should be considered a ripper victim!

My only caveat would be-his victims were boys. Not the same victimology and serial killers tend to stay with the same kind of victims.

Aussie George's photo really does seem to tally with witness descriptions-especially "Broad face man".

It will be interesting to see how this pans out-that's for sure!!!

[GregBaron]

Agree to agree...

I agree with you too Abby, the boy scenario threw me but some psychos are so twisted they'll abuse anyone.....see Israel Keyes.............still a big jump from middle aged street walkers to young boys...

Mackenzie's always been a tough one to ignore as well.....also this Hutchinson 's got the stout and broad shouldered thing down...

Hopefully more intrigue on the way....

Congrats to the author....


Greg

[Abby Normal]

I agree with you too Abby, the boy scenario threw me but some psychos are so twisted they'll abuse anyone.....see Israel Keyes.............still a big jump from middle aged street walkers to young boys...

Mackenzie's always been a tough one to ignore as well.....also this Hutchinson 's got the stout and broad shouldered thing down...

Hopefully more intrigue on the way....

Congrats to the author....


Greg

Absolutely! Congrats to the author!!

Re the change in victimology-it was nine years later so.....maybe.
nonetheless it is a sex crime after all.

[GUT]

Certainly an interesting read

[mklhawley]

Great read and I love the depth of research. Walking around Whitechapel with a gold chain exposed? Yah, no.

Sincerely,

Mike

[ChrisGeorge]

A terrific article on Hutchinson.

Gentle Ben must be thrilled...

Greg

If anyone is wondering about this article in Ripperologist 146 which we are offering as a preview of what the total issue has to offer, you can download "Terror Australis: Whatever Happened to George Hutchinson" by Stephen Senise here:

http://www.ripperologist.biz/pdf/146GeorgeHutchinson.pdf

Best regards

Chris

[Ben]

Hi Chris,

Many thanks indeed for this!

All credit to Mr. Sinese for a fascinating and superbly written article, and for providing such a compelling candidate for he of Miller's Court notoriety. I've no doubt that it'll generate a good deal of discussion, and I anxiously await the updated version in Rip.

All the best,
Ben

[Abby Normal]

Hi Chris,

Many thanks indeed for this!

All credit to Mr. Sinese for a fascinating and superbly written article, and for providing such a compelling candidate for he of Miller's Court notoriety. I've no doubt that it'll generate a good deal of discussion, and I anxiously await the updated version in Rip.

All the best,
Ben

You got that right. There's no doubt IMHO that this the best candidate for hutch by far. Can't wait till more comes out.

[John G]

I agree, an excellent article and a very strong candidate for Hutch. However, in my opinion indecent assault charges against two young boys, virtually rules him out as JtR. Serial killers who attack males are not generally interested in females, and serial killers who assault children are rarely interested in adult victims.

[Fisherman]

I agree, an excellent article and a very strong candidate for Hutch. However, in my opinion indecent assault charges against two young boys, virtually rules him out as JtR. Serial killers who attack males are not generally interested in females, and serial killers who assault children are rarely interested in adult victims.

Ah, but there ARE exceptions to the rule - like Shawcross, for example. Not that it matters much in ths case, since the proposed new Hutchinson is not a very good candidate anyway. As I said in my previous post, have a look at

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=24408

... and you will see why.

[Ben]

I see nothing in the linked thread that could be construed as remotely damaging to the author's premise. What I see is a promoter of a "rival" suspect theory - a heavily censured and highly controversial one - doing his damnedest to see off perceived "competition".

[Fisherman]

I see nothing in the linked thread that could be construed as remotely damaging to the author's premise. What I see is a promoter of a "rival" suspect theory - a heavily censured and highly controversial one - doing his damnedest to see off perceived "competition".

I am not all that surprised - we normally see different things, you and I. Edward Stow and Debra Arif (extremely accomplished researchers, both of them) point out that there is not a shred of evidence pointing to the suggested George Hutchinson ever having been in the East End.
Or in London, for that matter.

It is also pointed out that he was an able sailor, and he would therefore not be likely to present himself as a former groom with the police.

Debra Arif asks the question "In reality isn't it just a random man named GH who went to Australia and got banged up?"

And Edward answers - quite correctly - "Yes it is just a random George Hutchinson who happened to get arrested for flashing in Australia."

In your book, this is "not even remotely damaging" to the premise of the author.
I work from a different perspective.

It is also said that there is some VERY useful competition from George William Topping Hutchinson. Who DID live in London. And in the East End. And who DID have a son who said that his father was the witness of Ripper fame. And who DID apparently live a life in lodging houses, estranged from his home, after 1887. And who had a signature that is very similar to that of the witness.

A quick glance does put him eons ahead of the newcomer, thus.

Place Flash George in London, and he fares a bit better. Place him in the East End, and he starts to get interesting. Find a relative of his who says that he was the witness, and then all you have to do to come on level with Toppy is to find a signature from Flash George that a document examiner says is a close match to that of the witness, and you are on a roll.

But until that happens ...

[Ben]

Hi Fisherman,

No offense, but have you had a single original thought in the last three years that hasn't been put there by Edward Stow (with whom, funnily enough, you originally made friends on a Hutchinson thread)? If "yeah...what Ed said" hasn't been working for you so far as a debating strategy (and it hasn't), I can't see it availing you now. What are your independent thoughts on the issue?

Edward Stow and Debra Arif (extremely accomplished researchers, both of them) point out that there is not a shred of evidence pointing to the suggested George Hutchinson ever having been in the East End

I sincerely hope you're misquoting them, as they would both be factually in error. How you suppose the George Hutchinson in question managed to board the Ormuz if not from the East End of London, where the port of departure was located? Unless you're suggesting he swam to the ship from another English country, we have proof of his presence in the East End in 1889, which is precisely what we don't have for Toppy - who had no real connection to the East End until 1895, when he met his East End wife.

The author made it quite clear that his George Hutchinson was not necessarily a genuine "A.B.", but merely listed as one when he was discovered as a stowaway and put to work as a member of the crew. This is reinforced in his 1897 prison record which listed his occupation pre-departure from London as a "tinsmith", or a "labourer" according to another record. In no respect is there any obvious discrepancy with 1888 "witness's" press claim to be a former groom, now working as a labourer. In any case, the chances of the real Hutchinson's real occupation being investigated in any depth was slim.

Find a relative of his who says that he was the witness

Find a bogus discredited royal conspiracy book that was ultimately disavowed by its own author, find an interview with a son alleging a sighting of Lord Randolph Churchill the Ripper, find mismatching signatures according to the only document examiner to have inspected the original sources, and Sinese's candidate will be consigned by the doldrums with Toppy.

But until that happens...

[Fisherman]

Hi Fisherman,

No offense, but have you had a single original thought in the last three years that hasn't been put there by Edward Stow (with whom, funnily enough, you originally made friends on a Hutchinson thread)? If "yeah...what Ed said" hasn't been working for you so far as a debating strategy (and it hasn't), I can't see it availing you now. What are your independent thoughts on the issue?



I sincerely hope you're misquoting them, as they would both be factually in error. How you suppose the George Hutchinson in question managed to board the Ormuz if not from the East End of London, where the port of departure was located? Unless you're suggesting he swam to the ship from another English country, we have proof of his presence in the East End in 1889, which is precisely what we don't have for Toppy - who had no real connection to the East End until 1895, when he met his East End wife.

The author made it quite clear that his George Hutchinson was not necessarily a genuine "A.B.", but merely listed as one when he was discovered as a stowaway and put to work as a member of the crew. This is reinforced in his 1897 prison record which listed his occupation pre-departure from London as a "tinsmith", or a "labourer" according to another record. In no respect is there any obvious discrepancy with 1888 "witness's" press claim to be a former groom, now working as a labourer. The chances of the real Hutchinson's real occupation being investigated in any depth was slim.



Find a bogus discredited royal conspiracy book that was ultimately disavowed by its own author, find an interview with a son alleging a sighting of Lord Randolph Churchill, find mismatching signatures according to the only document examiner to have inspected the original documents, and Sinese's candidate will be consigned by the doldrums with Toppy.

But until that happens...

Nope. The new candidate remains a very bad one. No wriggling of yours will change that, I´m afraid.

I´m sure Edward would agree, by the way.