Ripperologist 129: December 2012

[Phil H]

The British have never has "secret police" as such.

MI5/MI6 (post 1888, of course) operate secretly but use Special Branch (part of Scotland Yard/the Met) as their legal arm.

I assume it would be Special Branch who appeared en masse.

Phil H

[robhouse]

I assume it would be Special Branch who appeared en masse.

Phil H

This would have been somewhat difficult, as from what I understand Special Branch consisted of 5 officers.

RH

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello DGB. Thanks. You are most kind.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

hmmm

Hello Phil. Thanks.

"I assume it would be Special Branch who appeared en masse."

That would make the gravy thick.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

Well, five is more "en masse" than four!!!!

"En masse" is as the heart sees it!!

More seriously, I suppose that a couple of SB officers PLUS constables could be a largish group!!

Are you suggesting the reference could be to OTHER than SB?

Phil H

[robhouse]

Well, I alter my previous statement. I think it is possible Special Branch was there. I also assume regular detectives were there... the combination of the two would have constituted "en masse"... and I do not think the person who wrote the article would have been able to differentiate between the two.
RH

[Phil H]

I agree.

Phil H

[Chris]

Thanks to Lynn for his interesting article on the Arbeter Fraint report.

Regarding Blackwell's statement about how long Stride had been dead, I think it's worth bearing in mind that the reports of what he said at the inquest differ. Two of them give "20 minutes to half an hour", but others say he thought it could not be more than some such period. Some examples are given below.

In addition there is a report in the Star of 1 October of a separate statement made by Blackwell, before his inquest testimony:
"She could not have been dead more than twenty minutes, the body being perfectly warm."

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/star/s881001.html

____________________

I do not think the deceased could have been dead more than twenty minutes, at the most half an hour.
Daily News, 3 October

Did you form any opinion as to how long the deceased had been dead? - From twenty minutes to half an hour when I arrived.
Daily Telegraph, 3 October

I do not think the deceased could have been dead more than twenty minutes, or at the most half an hour when I saw her.
Morning Advertiser, 3 October

I think deceased could not have been dead more than twenty minutes to half an hour when I arrived.
The People, 7 October

When he got to the yard at 1.16 a.m. the body was still warm, and the woman could not have been dead more than twenty minutes or half an hour.
St James's Gazette, 3 October

The CORONER. - How long had the deceased been dead when you saw her?
Witness. - From 20 minutes to half an hour when I arrived.
Times, 3 October
____________________

[lynn cates]

secret police

Hello Rob, Phil. Also, one must recall many of these lads were from Russia and they were used to "Secret Police" everywhere. It would be only natural to extrapolate.

As the saying goes, "You were prepared to see 'monsters' and 'monsters' you saw."

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Time for "The Times" on time.

Hello Chris. Thanks.

And thanks to you for the YIVO copies.

The time I used was from "The Times." It may be off by 6 minutes.

Cheers.
LC

[robhouse]

Hello Rob, Phil. Also, one must recall many of these lads were from Russia and they were used to "Secret Police" everywhere. It would be only natural to extrapolate.

As the saying goes, "You were prepared to see 'monsters' and 'monsters' you saw."

Cheers.
LC

Yes, I assume that Russian Jews would probably refer to detectives as secret police. I do not think it is too sinister... I think the term "secret police" mainly refers to the fact that they were "plainclothes" detectives, hence not overtly obviously policemen. When the CID was formed I believe there was some public backlash to the formation of a secret police force, partially because they did not want to be like Russia.

RH

[Monty]

Secret Police or Private Police are often confused with CID.

Monty

[lynn cates]

liberal Britain

Hello Rob. Thanks.

An astute observation. The whole concept of secret political police was inimical to the British, as Bernard Porter observes in his book.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

C I D

Hello Neil. Quite right.

Cheers.
LC

[mklhawley]

Yes, I assume that Russian Jews would probably refer to detectives as secret police. I do not think it is too sinister... I think the term "secret police" mainly refers to the fact that they were "plainclothes" detectives, hence not overtly obviously policemen. When the CID was formed I believe there was some public backlash to the formation of a secret police force, partially because they did not want to be like Russia.

RH

My guess is that this Yiddish paper made comments about secret police at other times, and possibly the answer could be gleaned out. Any future translations Lynn?

Sincerely,

Mike