Ripperologist 129: December 2012

[ChrisGeorge]

"...regular police and secret police arrived en masse." This certainly confirms Spiro's book about special branch being involved. Back to reading.

Hi Mike, Lynn, et al.

Yes I think they were actually just referring to detectives rather than secret police. We have to be careful in assessing the rendering of the Yiddish and sometimes not be too literal. For example, the reference to "little Jews" apparently meaning the observant Jews with whom the Socialist Jews were carrying on a running propaganda battle and occasionally real battles in the streets of the East End. It does occur to me though that it's probable that Special Branch was in and around the Socialist club keeping an eye on them, even if in this instance the "secret police" referred to were just regular Scotland Yard detectives.

Best regards

Chris

[lynn cates]

hope springs eternal

Hello Mike. Thanks. Well, when contracts pick up, I'll see what can be done.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello Chris. Thanks. I think you've nailed it.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

I think Chris has nailed it too; in more ways than one. His editorial was spot on.

[ChrisGeorge]

I think Chris has nailed it too; in more ways than one. His editorial was spot on.

Many thanks for your kind words, Hunter.

Cheers

Chris

[Bridewell]

Slev?

Have just read Martin Fido's thought-provoking article on rethinking Kosminski & Cohen. Has anyone established what the word is which MacNaghten began, then crossed out before substituting 'the' to read
"This man in appearance strongly resembled the individual seen by the City PC near Mitre Square"?
It looks to me like 'Slev' or something similar. (Apologies if I'm barking up an ancient tree, but I've never run up against this before.)

Regards, Bridewell.

[Monty]

Really enjoyed Gentle Authors piece this issue.

As one who looks out for such things it was a joy to read.

Monty

[Bridewell]

Have just read Martin Fido's thought-provoking article on rethinking Kosminski & Cohen. Has anyone established what the word is which MacNaghten began, then crossed out before substituting 'the' to read
"This man in appearance strongly resembled the individual seen by the City PC near Mitre Square"?
It looks to me like 'Slev' or something similar. (Apologies if I'm barking up an ancient tree, but I've never run up against this before.)

Regards, Bridewell.

Answering my own question, I guess it's taken to be 'seen', but placed too early in the sentence - rather an odd mistake though, to my mind. It could also be the beginning of 'Stevens', 'Stevenson' Slewinski' or 'Sliwinski'. Am I being fanciful here or might MacNaghten have begun to write a name and thought better of it?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Chris]

Have just read Martin Fido's thought-provoking article on rethinking Kosminski & Cohen. Has anyone established what the word is which MacNaghten began, then crossed out before substituting 'the' to read
"This man in appearance strongly resembled the individual seen by the City PC near Mitre Square"?
It looks to me like 'Slev' or something similar. (Apologies if I'm barking up an ancient tree, but I've never run up against this before.)

I thought it was 'seen', the copyist having jumped ahead a couple of words before correcting the error. (If I understand correctly, this page was written by Lady Aberconway, not by Macnaghten himself.)

[AdamNeilWood]

Hi Chris,

Yes you're correct - the photograph used in Martin's article in of the Aberconway version, written by Lady Aberconway and copied from the rough notes made by Macnaghten.

I agree with you that she copied the word 'seen' too early in the sentence.

Best wishes
Adam

[Bridewell]

Another illusion shattered!

Regards, Bridewell.

[auspirograph]

Hi Mike, Lynn, et al.

Yes I think they were actually just referring to detectives rather than secret police. We have to be careful in assessing the rendering of the Yiddish and sometimes not be too literal. For example, the reference to "little Jews" apparently meaning the observant Jews with whom the Socialist Jews were carrying on a running propaganda battle and occasionally real battles in the streets of the East End. It does occur to me though that it's probable that Special Branch was in and around the Socialist club keeping an eye on them, even if in this instance the "secret police" referred to were just regular Scotland Yard detectives.

Best regards

Chris

Why then, not simply express in Yiddish the word for detective if that is truly what they referred to?

If the term which has been translated as "secret police" is claimed in dispute and in error, as seems to be the case here amongst a few, then translation of the entire article should be approached with caution.

Of course Special Branch held watch over Berner Street with alarm bells ringing loud that night whether its members were involved in the Whitechapel murders or not.

It stands to reason with support of credible documentary sources which now, it seems to me, includes translation of this circular.

To Rob House,

Special Branch officers were not restricted to 5 as you've guessed, otherwise with Anderson, Littlechild, Swanson and Williamson at their desks, 1 would remain to attend all of Victorian England, the European Continent and the United States.

[robhouse]

To Rob House,

Special Branch officers were not restricted to 5 as you've guessed, otherwise with Anderson, Littlechild, Swanson and Williamson at their desks, 1 would remain to attend all of Victorian England, the European Continent and the United States.

Well there were probably more than 5, as you say. There were 5 in 1884, apparently about 30 by 1893, according to Le Caron. But correct me if I am wrong here... Swanson and Anderson were not in Special Branch...

"There are, I believe, some thirty men charged with the special duty of circumventing political crime in London. All praise and honour to them for the work they have done, and the sincerest congratulations to Chief Inspector Littlechild, who so ably conducted the arrests of all the principals of the latter day dynamite plots. " ----- Le Caron, 1893


"Whatever the exact mechanism was for introducing both the name and the concept to
London, the end result was twofold. The designation of "Special Branch" was adopted to describe Section d, consisting of Littlechild and his four Inspectors and the role that they performed was a very similiar one to that of their namesake in India." --- Clutterbuck, p. 224.

RH

[harry]

The danger was not in secret police as such,but in police doing secret things.As occurs today.

[auspirograph]

The danger was not in secret police as such, but in police doing secret things. As occurs today.

Indeed Harry and a good, common sense view which the police are entitled to do in defense of their statutory duties. But it is with the politics of crime where the problems start for without the celebrity serial killer, law enforcement and forensic units are poorly funded.

No doubt pleasant Christmas table conversation with the best of the festive season to you and all.

But correct me if I am wrong here... Swanson and Anderson were not in Special Branch...

On what basis do you presume that they were not...

Anyway, this detracts from the intent of this thread so I suggest you read my book where the evidence is fully given for your consideration.