Ripperologist 127: August 2012

[Monty]

The book was kinda forced on me Maria.

The timescales were unrealistic without the complications I personally endured. To be honest though, my heart is in another book I'm working on which I hope will see the light of day, as I think it will be worth reading.

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

I'm playing the interested bystander here.

Which cherries did Trevor leave on the tree?

Regards,

Simon

[Supe]

Neil,

Poor Don Souden waited patiently for my Brough photos so he could complete his NIR work, I think he has now figured why I was so late.

LOL. Clearly you were juggling several balls at once, but all's well. You got your Rip stuff done and your photos (and vignette of your getting the "bum's rush" from Scalby Manor) put the finishing touches on what I still think was a darn good and comprehensive article in NIR about the bloodhounds.

Don.

[Monty]

Neil,

Poor Don Souden waited patiently for my Brough photos so he could complete his NIR work, I think he has now figured why I was so late.

LOL. Clearly you were juggling several balls at once, but all's well. You got your Rip stuff done and your photos (and vignette of your getting the "bum's rush" from Scalby Manor) put the finishing touches on what I still think was a darn good and comprehensive article in NIR about the bloodhounds.

Don.

I think its the definitive piece on the subject Don.

I certtainly do not recall such a detailed examination and presentation on Brough and the use/history of Bloodhounds.

I reccomend it to anyone who wishes to know more on the subject.

And, as I type, I'm looking across at a piece of Burgho and Barnabys kennel tile. Yes, I took a souviner from Scalby Manor.

Monty

[Rob Clack]

And, as I type, I'm looking across at a piece of Burgho and Barnabys kennel tile. Yes, I took a souviner from Scalby Manor.

Monty

Thieving b'stard.

[Supe]

And, as I type, I'm looking across at a piece of Burgho and Barnabys kennel tile. Yes, I took a souviner from Scalby Manor.

Thieving b'stard.

There but for the grace of God go most Ripperologists.

Don.

[Monty]

Thieving b'stard.

Presarving history fella.

Monty

[mariab]

The book was kinda forced on me Maria.
The timescales were unrealistic without the complications I personally endured. To be honest though, my heart is in another book I'm working on which I hope will see the light of day, as I think it will be worth reading.

That's real cool, hope it's done soon, and that it's about the police.

Thieving b'stard.

If already the rocks are disappearing from the sites, no wonder that so many sources are unaccounted for. ;-)

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor,

The criteria for custody is irrelevant. In your article you make it clear that Magistrate Hannay could not tri the case, but could only hear the case. Central Criminal Court was required to tri the case, so 'held for trial' occurred AFTER Hannay committed the case to Central Criminal Court.

Sincerely,
Mike

Nice try Mike

Your wording "held for trial" is correct but you understanding of it is incorrcet

It is clear you still have not read the article thoroughly with regard to committal or if you have you do not fully understand it.

It is fact that if a committal could not be completed in one court sitting then the magistrate had the power to adjourn proceedings and remand the prisoner in custody for not more than 8 days and then bring him back to complete the committal.

Work the days out from November 7th-14th

Tumblety was therefore committed on the 14th "in custody" and then bailed on 16th.

So if he was committed in custody on the 14th he must have been in custody up until then.

[Rob Clack]

Presarving history fella.

Monty

That's what I told the police I stole a Kelly Brook cardboard cut out.

Rob

[AdamNeilWood]

Ripperologist 128

Well done to all concerned. Rip 127 will be a hard act to follow.

Regards, Bridewell.

Watch this space!

Best wishes
Adam

[mklhawley]

Nice try Mike

Thank you Trevor, thank you.

It is fact that if a committal could not be completed in one court sitting then the magistrate had the power to adjourn proceedings and remand the prisoner in custody for not more than 8 days and then bring him back to complete the committal.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. It's just that the hearing and committal was completed in one day -November 14th- so it just did not apply in Tumblety's case.


Hi Simon,

Cherry pie is forthcoming!

Sincerely,

Mike

[mklhawley]

Bridewell,

Your mistake is 'on the balance of probabilities'. As I stated earlier, in terms of logic his argument was quite valid (i.e., convincing) but it is not sound. I don't expect you to know there the cherry picking has occurred because you don't research Tumblety. Enjoy my next posts.

Sincerely,
Mike

As promised, here is the first of my posts:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=232923#post232923

Sincerely,

Mike

[Trevor Marriott]

Three points:

(1) There is no record of Tumblety mentioning this big mistake, but that doesn't prove he never did so.


(2) Committal proceedings are a stage on the journey to the higher court, so the difference, if a 'Not Guilty' plea has been entered, is chronological only.

(3) I have disagreed with Trevor on very many occasions, but I thought his article was well-presented and structured in its approach. He didn't (as I read it) claim that Tumblety couldn't be JtR, only that, if JtR killed all MacNaghten's canonical five victims, that individual could not, on the available evidence, be Francis Tumblety. I think that was an entirely rational conclusion to draw on the balance of probabilities.

Trevor's article has been somewhat damned with faint praise. That saddens me because I think it deserved better. It gets an unequivocal "Well Done" from me.

Regards, Bridewell.

Thank you for the kind comments.

You are totally correct with regards to your observations and comments in para 3 above.

That was precisely the purpose of the excercise and is by no means loaded as has been suggested.

[Stephen Thomas]

For Rob Clack....

Hi Rob

As I said before, your work and Neil's here is top notch. This is just regarding the 1912 Kings Block photo which I've always liked and is obviously taken from the junction of what was Harrow Alley and Back Gravel Lane.

Might you happen to have a photo of what this view looks like now?