Ripperologist 127: August 2012

[Phil Carter]

As far as I am aware, some of the album photos were first published in Paul Beggs 'Jack the Ripper The Uncensored Facts' and some were published in Bill Waddells 'The Black Museum'. We don't know the date they were transferred to the National Archives but I believe it was the early 1990s so the author/publisher of the Diary book would in my opinion have obtained the copies themselves from the National Archives. Presumably the album contained other photos but we don't know what or where the rest of the album is now so that is why we didn't expand further on it.
Rob

Hello Rob,

Thank you for this reply. It would indeed be interesting to know the whereabouts and or any contents within it. The Black Museum? Would Messrs Begg /Skinner possibly know?
Like you, I would presume that other crime scene photos/perhaps victims of other crimes shown withìn the album, especially if the album was used for lecture purposes originally?
Seems fairly logical to me.

Best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil

In Shirley Harrison's The Diary of Jack the Ripper (Smith Gryphon, 1993), six victim photographs were published -- two of Mary Jane Kelly, the famous photograph of her lying forlorn and mutilated and the smaller photograph taken from the other side of the bed, and both are pasted on the same black album page; a picture each of Nichols, Chapman, and Eddowes again pasted on a black album page; and a separate black album page with a photograph of Elizabeth Stride (one of those with her pegged against the wall). All three of the album pages have typed on an oblong white piece of paper pasted above the photographs, "WHITECHAPEL VICTIMS" and for the MJK photographs pasted below the images a white rectangle typed in three lines "Mary Jannette [sic] Kelly / Millers Court / 9. 11.88."; for the photos of Nichols, Chapman, and Eddowes, on three separate rectangles, it reads, respectively, typed "Mary Ann Nicholls / Bucks Row / 31. 8. 88", "Annie Chapman, Hanbury Street, 8. 9. 88.", and [handwritten] "Catherine Eddowes" (I'm squinting at the photo which is small in the book and assume that's the spelling) / [then typed] "MITRE SQUARE. / [handwritten] 30. 9. '88."; and for the separate Stride photograph all typed on a rectangular piece of paper, "Elizabeth Stride / Berner Street / 30. 9. 88." Note that attribution is clearly given for all of the victim photographs, "(Public Record Office, Kew)". I know that Richard Whittington-Egan provided some of the illustrative material for the book, particularly Maybrick-related illustrations, as per attributions in the captions to those images, so I don't know if he was the one who directed Robert Smith and Shirley Harrison to the PRO, which is now, as you will be aware, named the National Archives, or if someone else facilitated the obtaining of copies of the photographs. Phil, I hope you find this information helpful.

Best regards

Chris

Hello Chris,

Indeed, I was aware of most of this but yes, the information is most helpful.
However, the contents of the rest of the album, if any, are unknown.
(to me at least). I would have thought that if these photos were used for lecture purposes then to me at least, I would expect other crime scene photos/victim of crime also be in that album. A large album of such sizable pages would contain more than the photos shown?
And when the photos were taken from the album, what happened to said album?
Perhaps someone knows the answers to these questions? Even if the album is in private hands?

Best wishes
Phil

[robhouse]

Hi Adam,

Well, it seems to be a problem on my end. When I opened the pdf in "Preview" (Mac OS) it doesn't show about half of the images in Chris and John's article. But if I open it in Chrome, they all show up. (??)

So I wouldnt worry about it.

Rob

[Phil Carter]

I assume it refers to John McCarthy's wife, though I don't have any information beyond what I've posted, and I don't know whether this is new information. According to the A-Z, John's son John Joseph used the stage name Steve McCarthy. I assume this is he:
http://www.vads.ac.uk/x-large.php?uid=63532&sos=0

Hello Chris,

Many thanks for the reply. Without trying to presume anything, the obvious answer may come in nature of manner of death of both Mrs. McCarthy and her son, which may confirm any relation to drink being a cause of death, (liver disease etc).

Am not able to track either atm, so perhaps others may be able to or may already have. I havent the possibility at this time.

Best wishes

Phil

[Chris]

Have we Mrs. McCarthy's death certificate? Does this refer to Mrs John McCarthy?
Is Stephen Mc the son of Mrs McArthy?

I assume it refers to John McCarthy's wife, though I don't have any information beyond what I've posted, and I don't know whether this is new information. According to the A-Z, John's son John Joseph used the stage name Steve McCarthy. I assume this is he:

http://www.vads.ac.uk/x-large.php?uid=63532&sos=0

[Rob Clack]

Hi Phil,

Your welcome.

Rob

[lynn cates]

browser

Hello Rob, Adam. What browser are we talking about here?

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Adam,

Everything is ship-shape and Bristol fashion in my copy.

Regards,

Simon

[AdamNeilWood]

by the way, I don't know if others are having the same problem, but some of the photos are not showing up in my copy of the Ripperologist 127 pdf. Several in Chris and John's article are missing for example.

Rob H

Sorry to hear this Rob. Does anyone else have the same problem? I'll look into it and report back.

Adam

[Phil Carter]

Well, Farson's notes were kindly provided by Keith Skinner, who obviously has a lot of other interesting material, though I think he sent us all he had that was directly relevant to "Farson's Guide".

I have a few more snippets of information from the production file at the BFI about those who appeared (or didn't appear) in the programmes, which I'll try to post over the next few days if people are interested.

My attempt at a transcript of Farson's notes on Mrs Little was as follows:
_______________________

Mrs Little: One
wasn't scared [?]those
days. One was right
in amongst it.

She was a lovely
girl. They were
all good girls at heart
-
One saw stabbing
all the time
saw - cut
up & carted
off to hospital
in a wheelbarrow
-
[??]drink [?]sent [?]Stephen [?]Mc
blind - Mrs McArthy
died of drink

Hello Chris,

Many thanks for this. "saw stabbing all the time" "saw- cut up and carted off to hospital on a wheelbarrow" says a great deal.
Have we Mrs. McCarthy's death certificate? Does this refer to Mrs John McCarthy?
Is Stephen Mc the son of Mrs McArthy?

Best wishes

Phil

[Chris]

What was completely new to me was the photograph of the people with Farson who allegedly had connections to Mary Kelly (a Mrs Harvey was in there!), and also Farson's notes regarding his talk with Mrs. Little, who claimed to have lived in Kelly's room following the murder. Unfortunately, I couldn't make much of it out. My question to the authors is....do you have more material such as this that we haven't seen? If so, this article is begging for a part 2, much as Monty and Rob's is with the Eddowes photos.

Well, Farson's notes were kindly provided by Keith Skinner, who obviously has a lot of other interesting material, though I think he sent us all he had that was directly relevant to "Farson's Guide".

I have a few more snippets of information from the production file at the BFI about those who appeared (or didn't appear) in the programmes, which I'll try to post over the next few days if people are interested.

My attempt at a transcript of Farson's notes on Mrs Little was as follows:
_______________________

Mrs Little: One
wasn't scared [?]those
days. One was right
in amongst it.

She was a lovely
girl. They were
all good girls at heart
-
One saw stabbing
all the time
saw - cut
up & carted
off to hospital
in a wheelbarrow
-
[??]drink [?]sent [?]Stephen [?]Mc
blind - Mrs McArthy
died of drink

[robhouse]

by the way, I don't know if others are having the same problem, but some of the photos are not showing up in my copy of the Ripperologist 127 pdf. Several in Chris and John's article are missing for example.

Rob H

[sleekviper]

Sure Tom, I know that date in the land of outer fringe.

[Scott Nelson]

What's that brown little pile on the cobblestones in the alleyway from Gunthorpe Street into the square (photo on last page)??

[Rob Clack]

Whilst we are on the subject, I perhaps may now get an answer to the questions I asked many years ago, and have repeated here and on JTR Forums. Namely-

The first time I saw a print of the 'ripper victims' photos in situ as it were, in the album, was in the "Diary" book. (Yes- THAT book) I would still like to know, given the questionable nature of THAT book, and the amount of shenanigens happening at that time, WHO provided the photo album to be photographed and gave permission for such, for THAT book to use them and WHEN (DATE), WHEN exactly (date) were the photos taken out of the album, and lastly, as I would find it extremely odd that an album of photos apparently used by a retired policeman for educational/training/whatever purposes ONLY contained these 'ripper victim' photos, what was the rest of the album content and where are the other contents of the album now?

Photo albums normally contain more than two pages of photos. And even if emptied, where is the album itself- let alone any photos that would normally fill the pages therein.

I asked these things many years ago. No answers have been put forward as far as I am aware. Perhaps I missed some perfectly normal set of explanations? Do pardon my sceptical, cynical manner. It comes on naturally with age, so I've been reliably informed by my other, ageing peers. Lol

best wishes

Phil

As far as I am aware, some of the album photos were first published in Paul Beggs 'Jack the Ripper The Uncensored Facts' and some were published in Bill Waddells 'The Black Museum'. We don't know the date they were transferred to the National Archives but I believe it was the early 1990s so the author/publisher of the Diary book would in my opinion have obtained the copies themselves from the National Archives. Presumably the album contained other photos but we don't know what or where the rest of the album is now so that is why we didn't expand further on it.

And just for the record the photos are genuine.

Rob