Deconstructing Jack by Simon Wood

[Simon Wood]

Hi David

You fooled me again.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

You fooled me again.

Well, Simon, seeing as you actually, unbelievably, posted a drawing in this thread without any explanation whatsoever (having cropped the caption so you didn't even explain what the drawing was) but, at the same time, apparently hoped to make some "killer point" (if you'll excuse the pun) about that drawing - a point which you subsequently made in half-hearted fashion, but have now quietly dropped - it would not surprise me in the least if you were fooled by another drawing.

That's the point. They are drawings, not photographs. You can't make sensible forensic points based on them.

[David Orsam]

Now, Simon, having lured you out into the open, how about an answer to my question in the first part of my #153 (of which you only responded to the second part):

Pigott committed suicide didn't he? Do you know of [any] reason at all so suggest otherwise?

Ignored again I see.

Are you scared of the question, Simon?

Or have you finally appreciated that the idea that Pigott was murdered is utter horsefeathers?

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

Utter horsefeathers?

For the record, I do not believe Pigott committed suicide.

But he certainly died of a gunshot to the head.

Until such time that you can prove Pigott pulled the trigger, his death remains an alleged suicide.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

But he certainly died of a gunshot to the head.

Well I suppose we are making progress. It wasn't so long ago - post #70 in this thread in fact, on 16 July - that you said:

"And I was wondering if this man, roped to a chair, looked to you like someone who had earlier placed a gun in his mouth and blown out his brains."

It's good that within a fortnight you must now be happy that someone placed a gun in his mouth and blew his brains out, right?

Coz, there is no serious damage to the front of his face either in the illustration or from eye witness accounts, right?

[David Orsam]

For the record, I do not believe Pigott committed suicide.

...

Until such time that you can prove Pigott pulled the trigger, his death remains an alleged suicide.

Now, as for this utter horsefeathers, you've told us what you don't believe perhaps you can tell us what you do believe.

Do you believe that while a Spanish police officer, who had only been instructed that day to arrest Pigott, together with the hotel's interpreter, stood outside Pigott's hotel room, someone was able - while the two men were literally standing outside the room - to enter the room, or was already inside, and managed, without any signs of a struggle, to place a revolver in Pigott's mouth and shoot him and then disappear without anyone apparently seeing him, leaving the revolver in Pigott's dead hands, while the room was locked to await the investigating judge?

Who could have done have such a thing? Who could possibly have arranged such a fantastic murder in Madrid within 24 hours of Pigott's arrival at the hotel?

Or do you think the Spanish police officer and the hotel interpreter held Pigott down and blew his brains out themselves? And why would they?

I mean, come on Simon, horsefeathers is hardly the word. More like horse manure I think.

The type of massive conspiracy you are suggesting to pull off a murder like this is preposterous. And what is even the possible motive?

But please tell us what you think happened and, more importantly, what reason(s) you have to think it. Because, at the moment, it sounds like cheap fiction of the most imaginative kind, without even a miniscule of supporting evidence.

I'm sure you won't though because you never do, do you? You never actually say positively what you think happened in 1888 and 1889, even in a book of 565 pages. And I'm sure we all know the reason why.

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

Wrong.

There are accounts of his lower jaw being a total mess.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

Wrong.

There are accounts of his lower jaw being a total mess.

Can you produce these accounts of "his lower jaw being a total mess" then please Simon?

Then we can see what nonsense you are talking for ourselves.

[David Orsam]

Until such time that you can prove Pigott pulled the trigger, his death remains an alleged suicide.

Ha! If that were the case Simon then every single cause of death on every single death certificate in history is only an "alleged" cause of death until I can prove otherwise!!

We have two independent witnesses to a suicide and then a judicial enquiry and a post-mortem. It's probably the most clear cut case of suicide ever in the entire world!

Any attribution of a different cause of death, without any evidence at all, can only described as utter madness.

Certainly fiction.

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

Yes, I can.

But you should have come upon them yourself, having trawled through all those Spanish and Australian newspaper reports.

And where is your proof that Pigott pulled the trigger?

Let's examine the nonsense you are talking.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Yes, I can.

But you should have come upon them yourself, having trawled through all those Spanish and Australian newspaper reports.

Another cop out? If you say such reports exist then go ahead and produce them.

I'm saying it's nonsense.

[David Orsam]

And where is your proof that Pigott pulled the trigger?

Let's examine the nonsense you are talking.

Simon - Pigott was in a hotel room in a foreign country, having arrived within the previous 24 hours. He was seen alive, and spoken to in his hotel room, within seconds of his death, by two independent Spanish witnesses, one of whom was a police officer who had only been instructed that very day (at the express request of the British government) to arrest him for the purposes of extradition back to England. The other was employed by the hotel as an interpreter. These two witnesses were at the door of his hotel room, having literally just spoken to him, when they heard a shot. They found the revolver in his dead hand. He had a licence for a six chambered revolver in his possession. Pigott had a clear motive for killing himself as he was about to be arrested on a charge of perjury. He had admitted forging letters and had disgraced himself.

It's the clearest case of suicide ever. It's proved! It was, in fact, proved by an independent Spanish judicial inquiry. So why do you possibly doubt it? Come on, answer some of my questions for a change. Why do you doubt that it was suicide?

And what motive could anyone have to murder him? His suicide was a disaster for the Times. And he'd already had opportunities to blab out any secrets, if he was holding them. This "alleged" suicide is no more than fantasy on your part because you simply cannot accept the mundane truth. Namely that the British Government did NOT murder Richard Pigott!!!

[Simon Wood]

Daily Northern Argus, 5th March 1889



By the way, I didn't say the British Government murdered Richard Pigott.

Regards,

Simon

[Michael W Richards]

Ha! If that were the case Simon then every single cause of death on every single death certificate in history is only an "alleged" cause of death until I can prove otherwise!!

We have two independent witnesses to a suicide and then a judicial enquiry and a post-mortem. It's probably the most clear cut case of suicide ever in the entire world!

Any attribution of a different cause of death, without any evidence at all, can only described as utter madness.

Certainly fiction.

It seems to me that unless anyone saw the actual life taking shot, ....(an eyewitness...someone actually present in the room at the time the person shooting themselves commits the act), then any deduction or pronouncement of suicide is essentially just an opinion. One that may or may not be offered with complete sincerity. The point Im trying to make here David is that you batten down the hatches and launch on just about anyone here, with, for the most part, your own interpretation of data as your main weapon. Your own belief isnt really required to have a meaningful exchange of ideas, but your contradictory evidence is. So...what specific evidence do you present that Pigott was absolutely, 100%, a death by his own hand? Press coverage which says it was? Your own assumptions of what really transpired behind a closed door?

Im not sure if its naivete, or perhaps a need to advocate devilishly, but I for one would appreciate seeing some meat on the bones of your often insulting rebuttals.

[jerryd]

Daily Northern Argus, 5th March 1889

[ATTACH]18155[/ATTACH]

By the way, I didn't say the British Government murdered Richard Pigott.

Regards,

Simon

Shot himself twice in the mouth?