Deconstructing Jack by Simon Wood

[David Orsam]

Two more questions for Phil.

1. When you keep saying "odd" do you simply mean "unusual"?

Because, of course it was a very unusual situation wasn't it? Pigott has died in a foreign country where no-one knows him either well enough, or at all, to be able to formally identify him. We are in 1888 where there is no means of electronically transmitting a photograph. And those mortuary photographs on the slabs don't often look very "lifelike" do they? So I can perfectly understand why they wanted the most natural looking photograph to assist in the identification. Can't you?

2. When you said this:

"If the engraving. .from a photograph as Simon shows.. is of a dead person, having died by suicide in the manner described, with the exit wound in the place you quote, there is no way on God's earth the neck could support the head in an upright sitting position without being affixed as exampled by the Eddowes mortuary photograph."

What was the point you were making about the manner of death? What difference would it have made if the person had committed suicide by, say, taking poison or had been murdered, say, by being stabbed with a knife? How would it changed how the neck could support the head in an upright sitting position?

Or, as I have asked above, were you trying to say that the person in the engraving is not dead?

[Phil Carter]

David

I dont know what was going on. Hence the non reply.
As I said. I dont NEED to be right.
You seem to HAVE to be.
Every time.


Why?

And if you don't get answers we get long posts re quoting. It won't help your cause.



Phil

[Phil Carter]

Sorry for this being a double photo, I couldn't separate the two, but it's the aparatus on the right that was commonly used to support a corpse whether standing or sitting.
At point 'R' there is a two-pronged clamp which supports the head under the ears.

Hello Jon

Well..
If this was used..the ropes would not have been needed.
So obviously..it wasnt.


Phil

[Phil Carter]

Hello Jon

Also..would you be so kind as to quote the source of the photo/drawing please? And date if possible?

Thank you.



Phil

[David Orsam]

David

I dont know what was going on. Hence the non reply.

No, Phil, you clearly don't know what was going on. You evidently don't have a clue. I, on the other hand, know exactly what was going on.

As I said. I dont NEED to be right.
You seem to HAVE to be.
Every time.

It's not a question of having to be right Phil. I am right. I don't know about "Every time". But I am certainly right on this occasion.

Why am I right? Because I have both researched the matter and given it some thought. Some sensible thought. I've considered the evidence and applied reason and logic to the question*. Had you bothered to do so, you too would know what happened to Pigott in 1889.

*And physics!

[David Orsam]

The Fact

Pigott committed suicide by blowing part of his head off.

The Fiction

It was only an "alleged" suicide - he didn't really blow part of his head off.

The fiction is in Simon Wood's book.

The fact is I have stated in this thread, and elsewhere.

[David Orsam]

I have found some more newspaper reports, some of which I have translated from Spanish (using an online translator) and which contain what I believe to be exclusive information, never previously published, including the name of the judge who conducted the inquiry into Pigott's death and the doctor who conducted the post-mortem examination.

The first one I wish to reproduce, however, is from the Australian newspaper, the Sydney Morning Herald, of 9 April 1889 which states:

"The judicial authorities were at once informed of what had taken place, and they took possession of the dead man’s effects, and ordered his remains to be removed to the mortuary, where they were strapped to a chair in a sitting posture presenting a ghastly spectacle for those who wished to identify the remains…. The officers from Scotland-yard having fully identified the body, a post-mortem examination was held, and it is stated that Pigott’s brain was found to be abnormally large. The remains were buried with the clothes, in the Roman Catholic Cemetery."

So there we have the news of Pigott's corpse having been strapped to a chair literally travelling around the world without anyone having a problem with it.

This is from the Irish newspaper Freeman's Journal of 4 March 1889 and appears to be written by the same Central News journalist who wrote the story which was published in the Times on the same day, recording events of 2 March.

"I have just returned from a visit to the Southern Judicial Depot...The means by which death was accomplished are plainly and horribly evident. The lines of the mouth are almost hidden by dry blood and the beard and moustache are matted with it. Blood is spattered, in truth, all over the face and even the hands are stained red with it. The bullet and the explosion at close quarters played havoc with the lower jaw. The ball went out at the back of the head, near the neck, on the right side. To-morrow the corpse is to be photographed in order to preserve a permanent record but it will not be buried until Tuesday next, by which time and English police officer, whose departure has been notified to the authorities here, will have arrived. He will formally identify Pigott."

I see similarities in this report (when read in full) to a report which had appeared in the Spanish newspaper, El Imparcial, on the previous day, 3 March 1889:

"Pigott's corpse has been transferred to the judicial deposit of the South, where it is currently found.

He lies dressed, on a few pieces of locket, inside an ordinary table-cloth lined with black cotton cloth. The coffin is placed on a table. The suicide suit is made up of brown overcoat, black jacket and tricot vest, dark striped pants and heavy boots. All this used a lot. The vest is almost all unbuttoned, and a small, greasy scapular appears in the opening of the chest, on one side of which is painted the letters I H S, the monogram of Jesus, dominated by a cross.

The mouth and part of the moustache are full of dried blood, and on the hands and face there are also blood stains. The eyes, light blue and glass, are half open. The bullet had to leave by carcass of the neck, towards the right side.

In the same room there are other corpses covered with canvases. All of them are people found injured or dead in the street and before going to the warehouse have passed through the dissection rooms.

The dress of that room is miserable, disgusting, and unseemly. What a difference between her and the Morgue de Paris!"

On 6 March 1889, Inspector Quinn and Sgt Lowe having arrived in Madrid the previous day, El Imparcial reported the following:

"This new proceeding was carried out at two o'clock yesterday afternoon, in the judicial deposit of corpses, before Judge Mr. Saavedra, who is the one who is in charge of the case, and the secretary Mr. Lacin; The Consul of England, Mr Macpherson; Mr. Garcia de Alba, owner of the Hotel de Embajadores; Inspector Quinn; His companion Sergeant Lowe, and several journalists.

The corpse lay on a marble table, with its head slightly raised, so that the features could be well appreciated.

He was dressed in the same suit he had on at the time of the suicide.

It has not suffered alteration in its physiognomy nor has the projectile disfigured its face. Apart from the glassiness of the eyes, the blood stains on the lips and the yellowish color of the face, Pigott's features in his essential lines have been so integral and clear that recognition is easy for anyone who sees it.

Once in front of the corpse the people mentioned above, the recognition process began.

The corpse was perfectly recognized by those called to identify him.

A record was drawn up, which all the attendants signed and will be the last step of the summary.

The court will deliver today to the English embassy, and it will send to London through the mentioned police, all the objects that belonged to the deceased."

Apart from telling us the name of the judge, this report includes a number of features of interest. The corpse, which was tied to a chair on 3 March, has clearly been removed from the chair by 5 March and is now on a table but this is another report which confirms that the corpse was fully dressed. The report also confirms that the face was not disfigured. Furthermore, the corpse was visible to several journalists and the hotel owner.

We also find a report of a Central News journalist written on the evening of 5 March published in Freeman's Journal on 6 March which says:

"Two officers of the Criminal Investigation Department, London, Inspector Quinn and Sergeant Lowe, arrived here this morning and after calling at the British embassy and making various enquiries, proceeded in the afternoon to the Southern Judicial Depot, in the mortuary attached to which the body of Richard Pigott has lain since Friday night...The officers first went to the deadhouse and were shown the corpse, which they recognised without hesitation or difficulty as that of Richard Pigott...The remains of Pigott have been handed over to the hospital surgeons for dissection. This will be finished to-morrow, and the body will then be buried at the expense of the British Embassy in the Catholic cemetery. "

Finally, an exclusive never before published report of the post-mortem of Pigott which appeared in El Imparcial of 8 March 1889:

"The distinguished medical examiner, Mr. Alonso Martinez, yesterday practiced the autopsy of the body of the suicide Pigott, who is still in the Southern Judicial Depot, meaning therefore that the news published by almost all our colleagues concerning the verification of his burial is inaccurate.

According to Mr. Alonso Martinez, the autopsy has revealed the excellent state of health in which Pigott was when he committed suicide. Both the heart and the lungs and stomach were healthy. In the latter there is no noticeable vestige that Pigott was involved in the abuse of alcoholic beverages.

As the autopsy was brief, the forensic doctor was not able to practice a detailed study of the brain.

It may be said, however, that in the brain, well developed and conspicuous, phrenologically considered, there is a great abundance of circumvolutions, which prove the great intelligence of which Pigott was endowed, and above all, the sagacity which has always distinguished him.

The damage done by the projectile was terrible. It is already known how Pigott committed suicide: the bullet penetrated the upper part of the palatine veil, destroying the base of the skull, and consequently the [maxillary] apophysis, the cerebellum to its anterior part and in one of its two lobes, and finally, the occipital or posterior lobes of the brain, having its exit hole through the same occipital vertex, further fracturing the two parietals.

Pigott's remains are likely to be driven to the East Graveyard today."

There can be no doubt about it therefore. Pigott died of a bullet through the brain.

It was not an "alleged" suicide, as Simon Wood has apparently deluded himself to believe, it was an actual suicide.

[David Orsam]

Here is a report from the New Zealand Tablet of 3 May 1889:

"As is usual in such cases in Spain, nobody was permitted to touch or move the body until the magistrates came. The police mounted guard at the door of the room and information was instantly sent to the Civil Governor and the British Embassy. Sir Clare Ford sent the consul to make enquiries. The magistrate styled “Juez de Guardia” was soon on the spot with his alguazils and other officials. The judge’s first step was to send for a doctor, who declared the death of Pigott had been immediate, the bullet having traversed the brain.
…

During the night of Friday the authorities had the body placed in a simple coffin of black wood, and conveyed to the judicial mortuary in the Southern cemetery. The remains are in the clothes he wore when he committed suicide – a brown overcoat, jacket and waistcoat, black cheviot stuff trousers with dark stripes, and old boots. The shirt is open, allowing a scapular to be seen with the letters “I.H.S.” and a cross. The mouth and moustache, both hands and face, are stained with blood; the eyes which are light blue are wide open. The head is much mutilated."

So we see here that a doctor immediately established that the cause of death was a bullet through the head. As we know, this was confirmed in the post-mortem which was conducted on 7 March.

The New Zealand Tablet also confirms that, at the time the body was transferred to the mortuary, Pigott's corpse remained dressed in the clothes he wore when he killed himself, something which seemed to trouble Phil Carter.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

"The shirt is open, allowing a scapular to be seen with the letters “I.H.S.” and a cross."



Piggot would have had a struggle trying to fit the scapular shown here under his shirt.

Regards,

Simon

[Pcdunn]

I think that's a blanket around his shoulders, Simon. Look at his chest and you will see an image of a cross (possibly a crucifix) peeking betwween his opened coat and shirt.

While "scapular" comes from the Latin for "shoulders", it is not a blanket-sized piece of cloth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapular

From the above article:
"The "devotional scapular" is a much smaller item and evolved from the monastic scapular. These may also be worn by individuals who are not members of a monastic order. The Anglican Communion considers them sacramentals.[5] The devotional scapular typically consists of two small (usually rectangular) pieces of cloth, wood or laminated paper, a few inches in size, which may bear religious images or text. These are joined by two bands of cloth and the wearer places one square on the chest, rests the bands one on each shoulder and lets the second square drop down the back.[6][7]"

Modern scapulars look like this:

https://www.catholiccompany.com/brown-scapular-adult-16-inch-brown-strings-i115411/?creative=95892081638&product_id=2054419&gclid=CjwKCAjwtdbLBRALEiwAm8pA5V4iQ0cDi_waTmlGhH10YaCZg7TZIVnfrTf89XbwwkMRWlgN7_ptvBoC1H0QAvD_BwE&utm_source=google&device=c&aid=3317&sku=2054419&adpos=1o1&network=g&utm_medium=products&matchtype=

My parents were members of the Third Order of St. Francis and did wear scapulars of the modern type under their clothing.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Pcdunn,

Yes, I too snuck a look at Wikepedia.

If you're right, the Spanish authorities obviously didn't want Piggot's corpse to catch a chill.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Well, Simon, if you had actually read my #129 you wouldn't have got yourself so confused. I quoted from the Daily Telegraph of 4 March 1889:

"The Catholic scapular which Pigott had worn beneath his underclothing has been placed outside on the breast of the overcoat, the idea being that it would assist, if necessary, in the identification. It is small, and dirty and greasy from long wear. On one side there is painted upon it the sacred monogram “I.H.S.,” surmounted by a small painted cross."

As I commented in #129

"And if one looks at the illustration posted by Simon Wood we can actually see the scapular which the reporter describes as being "outside on the breast of the overcoat" - and it is outside Pigott's breast in the illustration."

Perhaps you should start reading my posts, Simon, if you want to separate the facts from the fiction.

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

And I suggest you read my post #144 in order to get a grip on reality.

Regards,

Simon

[Abby Normal]

Well, Simon, if you had actually read my #129 you wouldn't have got yourself so confused. I quoted from the Daily Telegraph of 4 March 1889:

"The Catholic scapular which Pigott had worn beneath his underclothing has been placed outside on the breast of the overcoat, the idea being that it would assist, if necessary, in the identification. It is small, and dirty and greasy from long wear. On one side there is painted upon it the sacred monogram “I.H.S.,” surmounted by a small painted cross."

As I commented in #129

"And if one looks at the illustration posted by Simon Wood we can actually see the scapular which the reporter describes as being "outside on the breast of the overcoat" - and it is outside Pigott's breast in the illustration."

Perhaps you should start reading my posts, Simon, if you want to separate the facts from the fiction.

I see the shadow of an outstretched arm and hand on the wall behind the standing man.

something extremely sinister is going on here.

[David Orsam]

And I suggest you read my post #144 in order to get a grip on reality.

I did Simon. What "struggle" do you think Pigott would have had to fit that scapular under his shirt?

And is that the only issue you are raising about the illustration?