Jack and the Thames Torso Murders: A New Ripper? by Drew Gray and Andrew Wise

[John G]

Yes, John, disarticulation alone is not enough to make the case, given the distance in time, although the neat and clean knifework does help the matter along - to a degree.
As for the comparison between the 1873 victim and Kelly, I keep it to myself, egotistical creature that I am.

I also like to keep my powder dry sometimes! Anyway, Christer, I shall look forward to reading your comparision.

Here's a snippet I was saving for later. The gap between the earlier Torso Murders and Rainham was around 13 years. Interestingly, a very detailed study has been done by Simkin and Roychowdhury looking at time intervals between murders for serial killers. The result for serial killers who had at least 3 killing dates (587 serial killers, 2412 inter murder intervals), is that 97.5% of the time intervals were 4096 days or less. A time gap of 13 years would therefore appear to be highly unusual.

[drstrange169]

Wow!!!

$27 (Australian) for the Kindle version. That the most expensive Kindle book I've ever seen, guess I won't be buying it at that price.

[Fisherman]

Disarticulation is an unusual mode of dismemberment, but caution is required: unusual doesn't mean rare! Thus, in a study of 55 New York City cases 35% involved disarticulation only, and a further 13% a combination of disarticulation and transection (Adams et al, 2019.)

As Dr Biggs has opined there is no proven forensic link for any of these cases, which is hardly surprising as the medical professionals involved were not forensic experts and lacked modern analysis technology, i.e. MRI scanners, CT scanners, X-rays.

Reference to "dexterous" and "neat" is subjective and not scientific.

I would be very interested to see an argument comparing Kelly with the 1873 case, particularly as they seem radically different to me and the forensic information is lacking in detail.

Yes, John, disarticulation alone is not enough to make the case, given the distance in time, although the neat and clean knifework does help the matter along - to a degree.
As for the comparison between the 1873 victim and Kelly, I keep it to myself, egotistical creature that I am.

[John G]

Disarticulation is an unusual mode of dismemberment, but caution is required: unusual doesn't mean rare! Thus, in a study of 55 New York City cases 35% involved disarticulation only, and a further 13% a combination of disarticulation and transection (Adams et al, 2019.)

As Dr Biggs has opined there is no proven forensic link for any of these cases, which is hardly surprising as the medical professionals involved were not forensic experts and lacked modern analysis technology, i.e. MRI scanners, CT scanners, X-rays.

Reference to "dexterous" and "neat" is subjective and not scientific.

I would be very interested to see an argument comparing Kelly with the 1873 case, particularly as they seem radically different to me and the forensic information is lacking in detail.

[Fisherman]

Hi Fish,

From what I’ve seen so far, Drew’s evidence for Hardiman being connected to HB is a bit flaky.

Your guy is a far better candidate in that respect.

Gary

I noted the discussion on the other site and it seems "a bit flaky" is something of an understatement. I also noted your question about whether I have ever stated my reasons for thinking that the 1873 torso case belongs to the same killer who was responsible for the 1887-1889 series, as described by Hebbert. And I noticed Debras suggestion that my take on things is guided by the Lancet article stating that the joints of the body were dexterously disarticulated and that the cutting work was not sloppy.
That is indeed part of why I count the 1873 victim in, but since there are a number of examples of "skilled" dismemberment affairs through history, that is not the sole thing that governs my call - it is something else, and the connection I speak about is primarily noticeable when comparing the 1873 case to that of Mary Kelly. That is all I have said so far, and I will keep it that way for now, I'm afraid.

[barnflatwyngarde]

My copy has just arrived in my local Waterstones.

Collecting it tomorrow.

[John G]

That's UK and as I'm not a Prime member and am indeed paying, (just under three quid), delivery, I'm as puzzled by the quoted delivery date as anybody else...

Thats odd. I'm not a prime member either, and opted for free delivery, but still quoted 21 to 22nd June.

[Cogidubnus]

I think it's still September in US. Release date of paperback is the 15th in UK but standard delivery (free delivery) date is estimated to be 21st/22nd June (sooner if you pay for delivery!)

That's UK and as I'm not a Prime member and am indeed paying, (just under three quid), delivery, I'm as puzzled by the quoted delivery date as anybody else...

[MrBarnett]

He was 14 in 1873, and that means that he is very unlikely to be the 1873 torso case culprit. And to me, the connection between that murder and the Kelly murder is a very striking one, so it will take a LOT to convince me that Hardiman was the Ripper. Maybe Mr Gray will produce the goods, lets see!

Hi Fish,

From what I’ve seen so far, Drew’s evidence for Hardiman being connected to HB is a bit flaky.

Your guy is a far better candidate in that respect.

Gary

[Fisherman]

He was 14 in 1873, and that means that he is very unlikely to be the 1873 torso case culprit. And to me, the connection between that murder and the Kelly murder is a very striking one, so it will take a LOT to convince me that Hardiman was the Ripper. Maybe Mr Gray will produce the goods, lets see!

[Abby Normal]

ill save my final judgement on the viability of this candidate until I read the book (which apparently wont be until sept!) but after doing a little looking at Hardiman it seems its somewhat dubious. the basis seems to be he used to live at 29 Hanbury where his mom lived, was a cats meat man, and his wife and daughter died of syphilis. He seems a lot like candidates like Jacob levy-a very tenuous connection to the case, and weak circumstantial evidence.

[John G]

thanks Cog
by delivery date-is that when it will be available in the states?

I think it's still September in US. Release date of paperback is the 15th in UK but standard delivery (free delivery) date is estimated to be 21st/22nd June (sooner if you pay for delivery!)

[John G]

Yes, that's based on standard delivery.

[Abby Normal]

I got an advisory from Amazon yesterday, quoting the revised delivery date of 21st June...

Dave

thanks Cog
by delivery date-is that when it will be available in the states?

[Cogidubnus]

This is odd, Abby. Amazon UK release date is 15th June, but Amazon US (.com) isn't until September.

I got an advisory from Amazon yesterday, quoting the revised delivery date of 21st June...

Dave