THE JACK THE RIPPER LOCATION PHOTOGRAPHS : Dutfield's Yard and the Whitby Collection

[Tom_Wescott]

I received my copy on Friday and read the whole thing in one sitting. That's very rare for me. I don't even read menus in one sitting! The photos were great and I enjoyed Philip's thoroughly detailed story of how he found the photos and set about his impressively thorough research. The only time I set the book down is when I read that he bought the Dutfield's Yard photo for only $5 off ebay. I needed a brief cooling off period after that. It was obvious that he wrote the text and chose not to use an editor, and this made the book read as though he were giving a talk. It also occurred to me that Philip bears a slight resemblance to Morrisey, but I digress...

I was shocked and flattered to find my name in the acknowledgements, and even more surprised to find myself mentioned in the text a couple of times. I'm not sure I agree with some of Philip's observations on the state of Ripperology, but I love the book and am delighted to have it in my collection. Thanks, Philip!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[George Hutchinson]

Thanks for the comments, everyone.

Tom - of COURSE you are due acknowledgement in the book. Your piece in RN about Berner Street was a smashing piece of work and I referred to it in both my US and UK talks (citing the source and author).

JM - Do you have the book? The reason I ask this is that I actually refer to De Forest in the text. She was definitely on the very same outbound journey and very probably on the return journey (if that return journey fits my assumptions from the research and that final trip did NOT come direct from Naples but switched back to the Lucania at Queenstown or Liverpool). The problem with De Forest is that she died a few years later and whoever has written the text in the album appears to have been adding notes as late as 1917.

Does anyone have a photo of her? My work seems to just throw up the fact that she was an author on nature. (EDIT : Seems I'm confusing Marion with Julia B... let's see now...)

PHILIP

[George Hutchinson]

JM - I'm very excited about this. I think it's possible we have her identified. I'm hedging my bets, as it won't be the first time, but the two photographs I can find of Marian De Forest are not dissimilar from those of the photographer. I have contacted the National Womens' Hall of Fame (she was inducted in 1998) and have some hope that we might get there. This could be the best Christmas present ever... if only I'd had this info before I wrote it!

I didn't find any online information about Marian De Forest when researching the book, only the nature author Julia B De Forest (who is named in full on the complimetary card given to guests in First Class for the probable return trip). Marian was very much alive in 1900 and 1917 and would've been in her mid-30s during the European trip.

Here's Marian De Forest :


PHILIP

[jmenges]

I don't own Margaret Addison's Diary of a European Tour, 1900, tho I'll see if I can get a copy. I stumbled upon it while looking into the American Women's temperance movement and their penchant for taking Thomas Cook's European tours. Somehow (I'll go back through my search history) I stumbled on Marian De Forest, recognized the name from your book and noticed the facial similarities.

Whether she ever made the European Trip I have no idea, but I agree that there is a similar likeness in their features.

JM

[Stephen Thomas]

Could well be, Philip. The eyebrows, nose. mouth and chin and hair parting are quite similar to to the close-up picture on page 80 of your book

[Suzi]

Hmm not totally sure about M Addisson http://mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=390

[Suzi]

Amazon- Don't think Margaret Addison's 'Diary of a European Tour 1900' helps at all.....

[Suzi]

Well here she is- Margaret Addison




NOT that gorgeous woman in Phil's book though I reckon........... I Just sooooooooo want her to have written those things and taken those pics!!!

I reckon they're one and the same!

[Mike Covell]

Addison has an autobiography.

[Mike Covell]

And Marian De Forest has a page here with biographical notes,

http://www.zonta.org/site/DocServer/MariandeForestBiography.pdf?docID=701

[Suzi]

Marion

De forest

[jmenges]

Addison (a Canadian temperance activist) wrote about taking a Thomas Cook tour similar (if not the same one) to what the Dutfields Yard photographer took. It was interesting to me because it mentions that she and her companions would leave the official tour, wander off on their own, then rejoin days later. And she may have left Europe on her own, departing from a different port than where the Cook group left from. She did not stick to any official itinerary. She was not the Dutfields Yard photographer herself, though she mentions in her book being in the East End, taking photos, buying film for her camera, getting photos developed etc.

Marian De Forest is interesting since the name Miss De Forest appears in a news clipping announcing assorted passengers departing on the vessel for the Cook tour, which the photographer mentions being a part of in Philip's photo album. She travels alone or with a group of women, which was typical of these temperance movement trips like Addison's.

I think there is a good chance that the Dutfield Yard photographer was a part of the same Cook tour that Margaret Addison took. And if she was in the temperance movement, like Addison, then its more than a coincidence that Marian De Forest looks a lot like the photographer and that the NY Times mentions a Miss De Forest departing on the required ship.

Obviously much more research is needed to figure this out.

JM

[Suzi]

And Marian De Forest has a page here with biographical notes,

http://www.zonta.org/site/DocServer/....pdf?docID=701

Yep saw that Mike Good one Jon

[Archaic]

Hi, everyone; very interesting discussion.

Here's another biographical page on Marian and a photo of her grave.

http://www.buffaloah.com/h/deforest/defor.html

Best regards, Archaic

[George Hutchinson]

Suzi - the post at #38 is not Margaret Addison. It's other shots of Marian De Forest (as it should be!)

I'm still waiting to hear back from the Womens' National Hall of Fame and Zonta, the organisation she founded in 1919 that is still going strong.

Have a great Christmas, all!

PHILIP