About JtR 21st Century Investigation

[Nemesis Legion]

I got a Casebook private message about the new edition of Trevor Marriott book The Evil Within, apparently its got some new gooey information on our friend ol’ Wacky Jack. I just wanted to know from fellow Casebookers if his books 'Jack The Ripper The 21st Century Investigation' and 'The Evil Within' books are good - if so I’ll look into them

From the private message below:

"I also uncovered two more murders of prostitutes in London which occured many years before the murders generally accepted as the work of Jack The Ripper. In the light of my findings these now should not be dismissed as these women could quite easily have been the first victims of Jack The Ripper. - All of this new evidence is published in an extended chapter on Jack The Ripper in my new book published on September 6th 2008 titled ‘The Evil Within’."

I await your input…

[Uncle Jack]

Good day Nemesis.

In regards to your question about if Marriott's 21st Century Investigation is good - well the answer is it really depends on who you ask on these message boards. I personally think Marriott's Jack the Ripper: 21st Century Investigation is a really great read and, aside from him trying to connect world wide murders to Jack, I think he presents a very good case for his chosen suspect, albeit one which relies on circumstancial evidence. But then again, most theories do. I would recommend that you purchase the book because, even if you are not convinced by Trevor's case against his suspect, it is very informative and helpful, especially since Trevor Marriott is a murder detective and has dealt with many killers, thus having lots of personal and professional experience. A particular highlight for me in his book is that of his dissections of the other suspects, most notably, Kosminski.

As for his new book, The Evil Within, it primararly focuses on known serial killers. It also contains a whole new additional chapter on his Jack the Ripper case and his suspect. I have only just received this book this morning so cannot tell you if it is good or not, but based on Marriott's Ripper book, I imagine this new publishing will be very good.

Best regards!

Adam

[Dan Norder]

Be aware that there are two editions of Marriott's book out. The first doesn't name a suspect (only suggesting that it was some unknown sailor. By the second edition the author had decided that Carl Feigenbaum was the Ripper.

I'm curious to learn what the new material about Jack promised for the new book is about. The references to earlier murders of prostitutes that are unknown of is curious, as we know of quite a few already. There were also new images promised.

[Debra A]

I'm curious to learn what the new material about Jack promised for the new book is about. The references to earlier murders of prostitutes that are unknown of is curious, as we know of quite a few already. There were also new images promised.

Dan,
Apparently they are the 1863 murder of Emma Jackson and the Harriet Busewell Great Coram Street murder, Both well known. In fact, I seem to remember a thread on casebook before the crash, which Trevor was involved in, where he was asking about other cut throat murders and I mentioned these two cases as being the only other two unsolved cut throat murders that I could personally bring to mind at the time, in fact I was approached after that post to see if I wanted to write something on them for an article.

Maybe Trevor has discovered some others, I'm not sure as I only saw these two mentioned in a link provided by JM on another thread.

Marriott, from the BBC

http://tinyurl.com/6567y5

JM

[Ash]

Yes, these do appear to be the "earlier murders" in question. I've just written the story up for RNE.

http://extra.rippernotes.com/?p=96

This will come as no surprise, Mr Marriott seems to make a habit of making amazing discoveries that everyone already knew about. Anyone who has read the Twentieth Century Investigation will be aware that the first few pages are taken up by his amazing discovery that there are more than five murders in the police files for the Whitechapel Murders, something apparently nobody had spotted before he came along!

[Debra A]

Thanks for clarifying that Alan,

The Emma Jackson murder is an interesting case in itself though, and has a bit in common with the Whitechapel murders story wise if nothing else. A polish man suspected and arrested, a drowned man found floating in St Katherine's dock suspected, numerous confessions from wandering drunks and lunatics, eye photography (which was considered by experts would be ineffective even in 1863!), partition walls, locked doors, thimbles, body repositioned on the bed after the throat was cut....motiveless.

[Chris Scott]

Here's a report on the 1863 Jackson murder

The Times
11 April 1863

[Chris Scott]

And the 1872 Coram Street murder

The Times
27 December 1872

[Monty]

Seeing as Trevor states Eddowes torn apron was actually placed in Goulston Street by her after use as a sanitry towel, I wouldnt be surprised if he states Jackson chopped herself up whilst shaving her legs and accidently fell into the Thames.

Monty.

[Debra A]

One thing I forgot to mention, A man named John Skinner first confessed to this murder in 1870, and went on to confess a further four separate times, right up until 1880. He got a drunk and disorderly charge and was dismissed from court.

[Ravenstone]

Be aware that there are two editions of Marriott's book out. The first doesn't name a suspect (only suggesting that it was some unknown sailor. By the second edition the author had decided that Carl Feigenbaum was the Ripper.

I got the first edition. Did I miss anything other than the naming of Carl Feigenbaum?

I try to limit my buying of reissued Ripper books to Donald Rumbelow's Complete JtR!

[Debra A]

Yes, these do appear to be the "earlier murders" in question. I've just written the story up for RNE.

http://extra.rippernotes.com/?p=96

This will come as no surprise, Mr Marriott seems to make a habit of making amazing discoveries that everyone already knew about. Anyone who has read the Twentieth Century Investigation will be aware that the first few pages are taken up by his amazing discovery that there are more than five murders in the police files for the Whitechapel Murders, something apparently nobody had spotted before he came along!

I believe that the Emma Jackson murder appeared most recently in the book "Unsolved Murders in Victorian and Edwardian London" By Jonathan Oates. I'm sure Rob Clack will know for sure as he is the one who mentioned it, but I'm not sure if I have remembered the right book.

[Rob Clack]

Debs drew my attention to the Emma Jackson murder quite a while back when she mentioned to me a series of articles called 'Unavenged Murders' which ran in The Illustrated Police News' (the Emma Jackson one was 24 November 1888) and she mentioned this on the pre-crash boards. And as Debs has mentioned the Emma Jackson murder appeared in the recent book "Unsolved Murders in Victorian and Edwardian London" By Jonathan Oates. Which also included the Coram Street murder as well.

Rob

[Dan Norder]

This will come as no surprise, Mr Marriott seems to make a habit of making amazing discoveries that everyone already knew about.

Yeah, based upon the murders in question, apparently so. That's why I am especially interested in seeing what the new images he supposedly discovered are... if they're ones I discovered and told him about and he's now taking credit for them I'll be more than a little annoyed.

I got the first edition. Did I miss anything other than the naming of Carl Feigenbaum?

Not really, just lots of arguments about Feigenbaum.

[George Hutchinson]

Hi. I was given the task of introducing Trevor at the WS1888 talks at the Museum In Docklands this afternoon, which was fairly well attended (about 50 people, many of whom I'd never seen before).

Trevor was, as usual, a fine speaker. Very polished, professional and confident and easy to listen to. Again, however, he did come out with a lot of stuff that had a lot of people grumbling and shaking their heads but he did also - like last time - come up with some things that really made you think.

He went through a whole long list of murders all over the place - not just the UK but Germany and the US as well, going right up until 1894. I don't feel particularly convinced by this but I've never thought his chosen suspect was worthy of instant dismissal like some of them clearly are.

He pointed out, as SPE as often said, that all the murder spots are indeed very close to major roads so the view that many people (including me) have that he was a local or very familiar with the layout, may not be as accurate as we assume.

The new images he has found are not antiquated. It's a series of genuine autopsy shots that were taken by arrangement, recently, to show the difficulty of obtaining body parts. This was quite unexpected in the presentation and some people were turning away at the explicit full colour nature of some of the images on the screen. Not for the squeamish.

Trevor's view is that the body parts were taken away not at the murder scene but later. Many will disagree with this. One thing that he DID show, however, to almost without a shadow of doubt, is that identification of body parts within the body cavity is indeed very difficult and that access is not in the least simplistic. He also showed that the kidney is, in fact, one of the hardest body parts of all to get to.

I think that some of what Trevor says is completely wrong and he is big enough to accept that people may think that and has no problem with it. However, I do think it wrong to dismiss everything he says out of hand because of the insecurity of some of his theories. At the very least, a lot of his work gives you real cause to think and you can't say he doesn't do his homework!

PHILIP