the victims werent prostitutes

[MrBarnett]

Evict her in the second week of October I expect ....
Many had to find money daily
As she was in McCarthy's shop the day before it might have crossed his mind to ask her about the rent then and as her door was a short stride from his back door why not knock himself

Ah, so how much was the arrears by the second week of October?

[Abby Normal]

any possibility that Mary was paying off her debt with sex?

do we know how moral McCarthy was?
how scrupulous a businessman he was?Any evidence he kept records of debt and payments from his tenants?


It may be one explanation why he would allow one of his tenants to get so far in arrears. just thinking out loud here.

[MrBarnett]

As for Bowyers sighting on Wednesday it was Kelly with a 'toff' in the court
Do you not think he may have mentioned this straight away to McCarthy ? If he had a chance of getting his cash , there it was .
It was Friday morning when Kelly was discovered so that argument doesn't stand up I'm afraid.

Really? A toff? In the court?

He'd have had to have been a pretty swell toff to have paid off Mary's (and Barnett's) 29 bob debt.

[packers stem]

Ah, so how much was the arrears by the second week of October?

One week's rent possibly ?
Barnett had been working but like with most things Millers court ..... shrouded in bull so who knows .
We only have McCarthy's word for anything which is , let's say ...... unfortunate
She may NEVER have paid any rent for all we know. .... and I suspect that is probably close to the truth

[packers stem]

Really? A toff? In the court?

He'd have had to have been a pretty swell toff to have paid off Mary's (and Barnett's) 29 bob debt.

You're not aware of Bowyers sighting?
Grab the A-Z and check it out

[MrBarnett]

One week's rent possibly ?
Barnett had been working but like with most things Millers court ..... shrouded in bull so who knows .
We only have McCarthy's word for anything which is , let's say ...... unfortunate
She may NEVER have paid any rent for all we know. .... and I suspect that is probably close to the truth

Ah, so even though Barnett had been out of work for 3/4 months they'd managed to keep up their rent payments until early October? Funny how McCarthy's evidence suggesting their arrrears had built up gradually coincides with Barnett's employment record.

[packers stem]

Ah, so even though Barnett had been out of work for 3/4 months they'd managed to keep up their rent payments until early October? Funny how McCarthy's evidence suggesting their arrrears had built up gradually coincides with Barnett's employment record.

Depends what you mean by "out of work"


To our reporter Barnett said he and the deceased were very happy and comfortable together until another woman came to sleep in their room, to which he strongly objected. Finally, after the woman had been there two or three nights he quarrelled with the woman whom he called his wife and left her. The next day, however, he returned and gave Kelly money. He called several other days and gave her money when he had it. On Thursday night he visited her between half-past seven and eight, and told her he was sorry he had no money to give her.

Star on the 10th

[Simon Wood]

Why didn't "Mary Kelly" earn any money on the game in the ten days between 30th October and 9th November?

[MrBarnett]

Depends what you mean by "out of work"


To our reporter Barnett said he and the deceased were very happy and comfortable together until another woman came to sleep in their room, to which he strongly objected. Finally, after the woman had been there two or three nights he quarrelled with the woman whom he called his wife and left her. The next day, however, he returned and gave Kelly money. He called several other days and gave her money when he had it. On Thursday night he visited her between half-past seven and eight, and told her he was sorry he had no money to give her.

Star on the 10th

How about 'out of regular work'?

[MrBarnett]

Why didn't "Mary Kelly" earn any money on the game in the ten days between 30th October and 9th November?

Is it known that she didn't? Your question suggests it is.

[Simon Wood]

Well, they were still in rent arrears on 9th November, and according to folklore "Kelly" met Mr. A while out on Commercial Street trying to borrow sixpence.

[MrBarnett]

Well, they were still in rent arrears on 9th November, and according to folklore "Kelly" met Mr. A while out on Commercial Street trying to borrow sixpence.

So how does that show she hadn't earned anything from her 'occupation' in the past ten days and even possibly handed some of it over to McCarthy?

I'm sure you don't believe Kelly wasn't out on Commercial Street 'trying to borrow sixpence'. Unless Hutchinson was making it up, she was there trying to turn a trick or two. Whether she recognised Hutch as a 'friend' who might sub her a tanner or whether she was offering him sex for that price, we'll never know.

[Simon Wood]

Because if your proposition was correct, an amount somewhat less than 27 shillings [6 weeks at 4/6 a week] would have been outstanding.

Personally, I don't believe Kelly existed, was in arrears, was out on Commercial Street, met Hutchinson or Mr. Astrakhan, or was murdered by JtR, but if you want to argue the ins and outs of a scenario which never took place, please be my guest.

[MrBarnett]

Because if your proposition was correct, an amount somewhat less than 27 shillings [6 weeks at 4/6 a week] would have been outstanding.

Personally, I don't believe Kelly existed, was in arrears, waos out on Commercial Street, met Hutchinson or Mr. Astrakhan, or was murdered by JtR, but if you want to argue the ins and outs of a scenario which never took place, please be my guest.

What proposition?

I have no idea when Joe and Mary started to get into arrears with their rent. Or whether any of Mary's earnings or Joe's top-ups went towards reducing their debt to McCarthy.

I must be missing something, is there a source which tells us the debt was 27s on 30/10 and still that amount on 9/11?

If you say you don't believe Kelly even existed, why are you arguing the toss about the minutiae of her rent arrears?

[MrBarnett]

Because if your proposition was correct, an amount somewhat less than 27 shillings [6 weeks at 4/6 a week] would have been outstanding.

Personally, I don't believe Kelly existed, was in arrears, was out on Commercial Street, met Hutchinson or Mr. Astrakhan, or was murdered by JtR, but if you want to argue the ins and outs of a scenario which never took place, please be my guest.

BTW Simon,

Thank you so much for your gracious permission to discuss Mary Kelly as if she existed and might have been a victim of the non-existent JTR. I'm sure all the other deluded fools who think she did and probably was are equally grateful.

🤔