One-Armed Jack

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’ve started One-Armed Jack by Sarah Bax Horton.

Over on the All Roads Lead To Lechmere thread, post #344 I raised the point that the author claimed (per a newspaper report) that Robert Paul also attended the Nichols inquest wearing his work clothes. Both Steve Blomer (Elemarna) and RJ Palmer checked and found no mention of this. So perhaps a simple assumption which the author should have checked? Error rather than anything deliberate as she wasn’t making any point that made this important.

Moving on to page 117 in the chapter on the Stride murder with the author discussing PC Lamb - she says:

“On discovering ‘a woman lying in Berner Street with her throat cut, and apparently dead,’ he sent Constable Gunner, who had followed him there, to fetch the nearest doctor, and ‘a young man’ to Leman Street police station to fetch the Inspector.”

Ive always believed that the Constable, sent by Lamb, was PC Ayliff (426H) Gunner certainly existed because he’s listed in Police Orders as being transferred from T Division (Hammersmith) to Whitechapel during the murders.

T650 to H467 PC 66443 [2nd Class] Arthur Vincent
T510 to H468 PC 68788 [2nd Class] William A. Walker
T602 to H469 PC 70694 [3rd Class] Frederick Lessons
T372 to H470 PC 71125 [3rd Class] William J. Rough
T621 to H471 PC 72933 [3rd Class] William H. Saundery
T250 to H472 PC 73033 [3rd Class] Thomas Jefferson
T651 to H473 PC 73631 [3rd Class] Arthur Waters
T652 to H474 PC 73636 [3rd Class] Albert A. Truelove
T671 to H475 PC 73682 [3rd Class] George Evans
T674 to H476 PC 73715 [3rd Class] Robert Vickers
T680 to H477 PC 73736 [3rd Class] Harry Roffey
T181 to H478 PC 73744 [3rd Class] William J. Gunner
T687 to H479 PC 73764 [3rd Class] William Lewis*
T688 to H480 PC 73769 [3rd Class] Griffith Evans*
T236 to H481 PC 73777 [3rd Class] George Crews
T668 to H482 PC 73778 [3rd Class] Michael Waters
T465 to H483 PC 73785 [3rd Class] Thomas T. Guppy
T679 to H484 PC 73793 [3rd Class] Benjamin C. Ide
T279 to H485 PC 73813 [3rd Class] George M. Ide

This transfer appears to have occurred on Oct 31st but I’m not quite sure….

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/police-officials-and-procedures/general-police-discussion/727409-police-orders-31st-october-1888

Anyway, my question is……..has anyone heard of Gunner before and how does she have him involved in Berner Street?

[Doctored Whatsit]

Hi H,

According to the A-Z, Gunner joined Lamb in going to Stride's murder site, and was despatched to fetch Dr Blackwell.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi H,

According to the A-Z, Gunner joined Lamb in going to Stride's murder site, and was despatched to fetch Dr Blackwell.

Cheers Doc. I have to say that I’m surprised. The name just didn’t ring any bells. It’s not mentioned in the Sourcebook or Sugden (I don’t have the A-Z on Kindle) Of all of the discussions on Stride over the last few years I’ve never seen Gunner mentioned. His name doesn’t even show up on Casebook’s search function. I wonder why we have assumed that this was Ayliff?

[Doctored Whatsit]

Cheers Doc. I have to say that I’m surprised. The name just didn’t ring any bells. It’s not mentioned in the Sourcebook or Sugden (I don’t have the A-Z on Kindle) Of all of the discussions on Stride over the last few years I’ve never seen Gunner mentioned. His name doesn’t even show up on Casebook’s search function. I wonder why we have assumed that this was Ayliff?

I admit that I didn't know PC Gunner either, that's why I looked him up in the A-Z!

[Herlock Sholmes]

I admit that I didn't know PC Gunner either, that's why I looked him up in the A-Z!

When the new A-Z emerges I think I’ll get the Kindle version. I’ve only got around 5 ripper books on Kindle and around 300 in paperback or hardback.

[Doctored Whatsit]

When the new A-Z emerges I think I’ll get the Kindle version. I’ve only got around 5 ripper books on Kindle and around 300 in paperback or hardback.

What days do you open your JtR library to the public?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/general-help-request-items-for-sale-forum/600731-the-berner-street-club?p=600733#post600733

[Herlock Sholmes]

What days do you open your JtR library to the public?

To be honest Doc, many of them are total crap, bought when I was buying everything that I could. I’ve also got loads of magazines and pamphlets (we don’t get pamphlets these days - things like John Morrison’s Jimmy Kelly’s Year of The Ripper Murders [i can’t recall the exact title]) I haven’t looked through them in ages. I have all the hard copy Ripperologist magazines (maybe one or two missing) plus all the Ripperana’s) No William Stewart though and only facsimile’s of Woodhall’s book (ditto Macnaghten, Anderson and Smith) I’ve got Arthur Griffith’s Mysteries of Police and Crime but one of the three is a different size to the others so they aren’t strictly speaking a set. I remember feeling extravagant years ago spending £45 to buy Bernard’s The Harlot Killer.

Apologies for the walk down memory lane.

[Herlock Sholmes]

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/gene...733#post600733

Cheers Andrew. I didn’t check JTRForums. I’ll have a look in my A-Z later. It’s strange that Jose says that it doesn’t connect Gunner to Berner Street though.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Cheers Andrew. I didn’t check JTRForums. I’ll have a look in my A-Z later. It’s strange that Jose says that it doesn’t connect Gunner to Berner Street though.

No prob, Michael. Also check post #47

[Herlock Sholmes]

No prob, Michael. Also check post #47

Jose’s on the ball!

I just checked my ‘94 and ‘96 A-Z’s and neither mention Gunner (the G section ends with Gull) but I’d forgotten the 2010 hardback. I checked that and it end with Gunner:

GUNNER, PC WILLIAM, 426H (b.c. 1865)

Born in Hampshire; joined H Division, July 1888 (warrant no. 73744)
Joined PC Lamb in going to Elizabeth Stride’s murder site and was despatched to fetch Dr. Blackwell.

So his warrant number matches the Police Orders but in the PO his collar number is 478H and not 426H.

[FriedKidne]

Questions to ponder:

How does the author know that Annie Chapman's dress in the formal photograph is blue?

How can a one-armed man have two arms?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Questions to ponder:

How does the author know that Annie Chapman's dress in the formal photograph is blue?

How can a one-armed man have two arms?

I don’t know about the blue dress part FK but Hyams wasn’t actually one-armed. He just had an arm injury which the author said affected his ability to get work but would have been ok for subduing and throttling a woman.

[mpriestnall]

Jose’s on the ball!

I just checked my ‘94 and ‘96 A-Z’s and neither mention Gunner (the G section ends with Gull) but I’d forgotten the 2010 hardback. I checked that and it end with Gunner:

GUNNER, PC WILLIAM, 426H (b.c. 1865)

Born in Hampshire; joined H Division, July 1888 (warrant no. 73744)
Joined PC Lamb in going to Elizabeth Stride’s murder site and was despatched to fetch Dr. Blackwell.

So his warrant number matches the Police Orders but in the PO his collar number is 478H and not 426H.

Herlock, thanks for the post mentioning Gunner. He's escaped my note until now.

[mpriestnall]

Questions, so many questions...

1. How did PC Gunner come to be at the crime scene?
2. Was he on a beat nearby and if so, which one?
3. Who called him?
4. What time did he arrive at the crime scene?
5. Does he appear in any press reports?
6. What are this Wednesday coming UK Lottery winning numbers?