Oh, Dear Boss: Druitt's on a Sticky Wicket

[FISHY1118]

Yes he was active, but bearing in mind his lack of police training and his lack of investigative experience must have had an impcat on him because the MM`s are littered with errors, so they are unsafe, there is no evidence that the infomation contained in them was ever investigated. Ostrog proves my point, he mentions him as a likely suspect but we know he was in jail in France at the time of the murders so that alone proves my point had the proper investigations been carried out into those named in thr MM that would have come to light, so the MM`s are unsafe to rely on in any event

In todays policing, officers are selected from the ranks to train as detectives after completing 2 years initial basic police training, and the majority of officers above the rank of Inspector take on clerical and supervisory roles.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

So ,In your opinion should Druitt have been a suspect at all? Based on MMs Ostrog Faux Pas

[Herlock Sholmes]

[QUOTE=FISHY1118;n787592]

I'm not sidestepping anything. Its a druitt topic not anything to do with knight ,and as I've already stated i agree with Allys view 100%. You want to see it differently thats your problem. Nothing to do with me.

Fine. You’re like the music fan that loves The Cheeky Girls and Jedward who criticises the musical taste of someone that likes The Beatles and Bob Dylan. Druitt should be eliminated but a disproven Masonic plot involving a 71 doctor who was recovering from a stroke should remain on the list. Yeah right.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I'm inclined to agree with Trevor on this one. Anderson and MacNaghten's positions were more to do with status than ability to do the job. You can see similar evidence in the almost automatic installation of the upper class into the officer ranks in WW1, leading to the description "Lions led by donkeys".

Cheers, George

I’d never dispute that he got the job because of who he knew rather than for his experience in the field George but I’d say that you don’t need to be a Police Officer (experienced or otherwise) to assess information that you’re given. We all do it every day and there’s no evidence that Macnaughten was incompetent or a fool.

[FISHY1118]

[QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;n787605]

Fine. You’re like the music fan that loves The Cheeky Girls and Jedward who criticises the musical taste of someone that likes The Beatles and Bob Dylan. Druitt should be eliminated but a disproven Masonic plot involving a 71 doctor who was recovering from a stroke should remain on the list. Yeah right.

Yer but were not talking about a mAsonic plot tho are , we were talking about Druitt ? . And i believe shortly Trevor will agree withh Ally as well , just my opinion. Bob who ?

[FISHY1118]

I’d never dispute that he got the job because of who he knew rather than for his experience in the field George but I’d say that you don’t need to be a Police Officer (experienced or otherwise) to assess information that you’re given. We all do it every day and there’s no evidence that Macnaughten was incompetent or a fool.

If Trevors right about Ostrog being in jail ,Macnaughten was both.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes he was active, but bearing in mind his lack of police training and his lack of investigative experience must have had an impcat on him because the MM`s are littered with errors, so they are unsafe, there is no evidence that the infomation contained in them was ever investigated. Ostrog proves my point, he mentions him as a likely suspect but we know he was in jail in France at the time of the murders so that alone proves my point had the proper investigations been carried out into those named in thr MM that would have come to light, so the MM`s are unsafe to rely on in any event

In todays policing, officers are selected from the ranks to train as detectives after completing 2 years initial basic police training, and the majority of officers above the rank of Inspector take on clerical and supervisory roles.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

You don’t need Police training to be able to assess information that you’re given. We all do it every day. You’re trying to make Police training into some mysterious and arcane bit of knowledge that only policemen could know.

The original point though is that the very choice of Druitt on a list alongside the likes of Kosminski and Ostrog make him interesting and worth considering. Macnaughten’s information could have been incorrect of course or he could have over-estimated it’s significance. I’ve never denied these very real possibilities so this is why I don’t ‘rely’ on them despite your repeated claims to the contrary. But the information might have been genuine and significant so the more pertinent question is why do people like yourself and Fishy seek to dismiss it. And you tend to do it by trying to discredit Macnaughten based on a few very simple errors which are virtually meaningless.

On those errors, we don’t know the source of his info of course but there’s a reasonable chance that it could have been his good friend Sir Vivian Majendie who was the Queen’s Inspecter of Explosives for 27 years, so hardly a gossiping time waster. So information coming from the family via Majendie would have carried considerable weight with anyone, especially Macnaughten. And as Macnaughten wasn’t building a case for arrest or providing information to some kind of Public Enquiry it would hardly have been a great crime if he didn’t double check a few personal details like his age and occupation. Too much is made of these inconsequential and understandable errors. If I told someone something about you and the basic information was absolutely correct but I got your age and current profession wrong should we throw out the info?

[Herlock Sholmes]

You have this thing about MM where you want to believe in all that is written in the MM the term discredit is an overkill, all that is being said is that that the MM is unsafe to rely on, my previous post has highlighted the reasons yet you wont even consider those reasons, you need to take the blinkers off.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

But I’ve repeatedly considered them. Do you not read posts Trevor? I’ll try again but I really don’t know why I should keep having to repeat this in thread after thread and in post after post when you simply stick your fingers in your ears and plough on with your ‘information you rely on’ nonsense. Ok, are you reading this Trevor? And I mean all of it and not just the first line.

I FULLY ACCEPT THE POSSIBILITY THAT MACNAUGHTEN’S INFORMATION MIGHT HAVE BEEN INCORRECT.

I FULLY ACCEPT THE POSSIBILITY THAT MACNAUGHTEN MIGHT HAVE OVERESTIMATED THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE EVIDENCE CONTAINED WITHIN THE INFORMATION.

I HAVE NEVER SUGGESTED THAT THE INFORMATION CONTAINED WITHIN THE MEMORANDUM IN ANY WAY PROVES THAT DRUITT WAS GUILTY.

PLEASE enlighten me as to how, on any habitable planet, you can construe this as me ‘relying’ on anything? Why is it wrong to simply consider the possibility? And why is it in any way wrong to question why Macnaughten should have simply plucked Druitt’s name out of thin air as a likely suspect?

Its you that has the blinkers on Trevor because no matter how many times I state my position you completely and deliberately ignore it to try and claim that I’m somehow making assumptions or relying on information simply to ‘promote’ Druitt. It’s you that has the rigid attitude on this point (and your not alone) Druitt is the suspect that won’t go away and for some inexplicable reason it causes some to foam at the mouth and lose all sense of reason.

[Herlock Sholmes]

[QUOTE=FISHY1118;n787607]

Yer but were not talking about a mAsonic plot tho are , we were talking about Druitt ? . And i believe shortly Trevor will agree withh Ally as well , just my opinion. Bob who ?

Silliness as ever. You dismiss the reasonable and support the ludicrous. If that’s the way it works for you Fishy then there’s nothing I can add.

[Herlock Sholmes]

If Trevors right about Ostrog being in jail ,Macnaughten was both.

[FISHY1118]

[QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;n787612]

Silliness as ever. You dismiss the reasonable and support the ludicrous. If that’s the way it works for you Fishy then there’s nothing I can add.

Or perhaps youve accepted the Ludicrous and dismissed the Reasonable when it comes to Druitt ....... As Ally has already alluded to.

[Losmandris]

Now I am not entirely convinced MJD was JtR and neither am in general a fan of suspectology. But the fact is, as far as named suspects go he has to be pretty high up on the list. There does not seem to be some 'knock out blow' to eliminate him entirely and there seems to be some intriguing hints, a lot of it contemporary that he just could have been the killer. Until something definite turns up, surely he must remain a stronger contender as far as named suspects go. I would certainly not bet my life that he was not the killers, where as I am afraid to say in the case of Maybrick or Gull if I had to, i'd take that bet.

Its probably me but sorry, I just don't get the nitpicking to dismiss him? Surely barring that 'knock out' bit of evidence or a time machine it is just futile. Ok I realise some people may have a bit of agenda here, that's fine. The point is just state that agenda first, it really is ok to share!

Maybe admin can add something to our avatars where we can state our preferred suspect or add 'no preference'. At least it would make things a bit easier and save all this reading between the lines.

[FISHY1118]

Now I am not entirely convinced MJD was JtR and neither am in general a fan of suspectology. But the fact is, as far as named suspects go he has to be pretty high up on the list. There does not seem to be some 'knock out blow' to eliminate him entirely and there seems to be some intriguing hints, a lot of it contemporary that he just could have been the killer. Until something definite turns up, surely he must remain a stronger contender as far as named suspects go. I would certainly not bet my life that he was not the killers, where as I am afraid to say in the case of Maybrick or Gull if I had to, i'd take that bet.

Its probably me but sorry, I just don't get the nitpicking to dismiss him? Surely barring that 'knock out' bit of evidence or a time machine it is just futile. Ok I realise some people may have a bit of agenda here, that's fine. The point is just state that agenda first, it really is ok to share!

Maybe admin can add something to our avatars where we can state our preferred suspect or add 'no preference'. At least it would make things a bit easier and save all this reading between the lines.

Have you listened to the podcast Tristan ?

[Losmandris]

Have you listened to the podcast Tristan ?

Not as of yet. I have to admit. Is it going to change everything I have just said?

[Trevor Marriott]

Now I am not entirely convinced MJD was JtR and neither am in general a fan of suspectology. But the fact is, as far as named suspects go he has to be pretty high up on the list. There does not seem to be some 'knock out blow' to eliminate him entirely and there seems to be some intriguing hints, a lot of it contemporary that he just could have been the killer. Until something definite turns up, surely he must remain a stronger contender as far as named suspects go. I would certainly not bet my life that he was not the killers, where as I am afraid to say in the case of Maybrick or Gull if I had to, i'd take that bet.

Its probably me but sorry, I just don't get the nitpicking to dismiss him? Surely barring that 'knock out' bit of evidence or a time machine it is just futile. Ok I realise some people may have a bit of agenda here, that's fine. The point is just state that agenda first, it really is ok to share!

Maybe admin can add something to our avatars where we can state our preferred suspect or add 'no preference'. At least it would make things a bit easier and save all this reading between the lines.

There is no nitpicking the MM has been proved to be incorrcet and therefore is unsafe to rely on its as simple as that

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[FISHY1118]

Not as of yet. I have to admit. Is it going to change everything I have just said?

After you've listened , you tell me ?