Oh, Dear Boss: Druitt's on a Sticky Wicket

[GBinOz]

I’d never dispute that he got the job because of who he knew rather than for his experience in the field George but I’d say that you don’t need to be a Police Officer (experienced or otherwise) to assess information that you’re given. We all do it every day and there’s no evidence that Macnaughten was incompetent or a fool.

Hi Sherlock,

My experience is that such people are put in place as figureheads to engage with other figureheads only with the portions of information that filters up to them from the people who actually know what is going on, and who pass on just enough to keep the figureheads occupied. There is little evidence against MJD other than Macnaghten's secret information, which may amount to nothing more than chinese whispers amongst the idle rich. We won't know because MM said he destroyed that information to protect those involved.

That said, I find MJD an interesting mystery fully worthy of discussion, I just can't see that there is evidence for him being JtR.

Cheers, George

[Losmandris]

After you've listened , you tell me ?

You're on!

[Ms Diddles]

Now I am not entirely convinced MJD was JtR and neither am in general a fan of suspectology. But the fact is, as far as named suspects go he has to be pretty high up on the list. There does not seem to be some 'knock out blow' to eliminate him entirely and there seems to be some intriguing hints, a lot of it contemporary that he just could have been the killer. Until something definite turns up, surely he must remain a stronger contender as far as named suspects go. I would certainly not bet my life that he was not the killers, where as I am afraid to say in the case of Maybrick or Gull if I had to, i'd take that bet.

Its probably me but sorry, I just don't get the nitpicking to dismiss him? Surely barring that 'knock out' bit of evidence or a time machine it is just futile. Ok I realise some people may have a bit of agenda here, that's fine. The point is just state that agenda first, it really is ok to share!

Maybe admin can add something to our avatars where we can state our preferred suspect or add 'no preference'. At least it would make things a bit easier and save all this reading between the lines.

This is exactly where I'm at with Druitt as a suspect, Los.

That said, I haven't yet listened to the podcast, but will do so and see if that changes my position.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Now I am not entirely convinced MJD was JtR and neither am in general a fan of suspectology. But the fact is, as far as named suspects go he has to be pretty high up on the list. There does not seem to be some 'knock out blow' to eliminate him entirely and there seems to be some intriguing hints, a lot of it contemporary that he just could have been the killer. Until something definite turns up, surely he must remain a stronger contender as far as named suspects go. I would certainly not bet my life that he was not the killers, where as I am afraid to say in the case of Maybrick or Gull if I had to, i'd take that bet.

Its probably me but sorry, I just don't get the nitpicking to dismiss him? Surely barring that 'knock out' bit of evidence or a time machine it is just futile. Ok I realise some people may have a bit of agenda here, that's fine. The point is just state that agenda first, it really is ok to share!

Maybe admin can add something to our avatars where we can state our preferred suspect or add 'no preference'. At least it would make things a bit easier and save all this reading between the lines.

A very fair and reasonable post. Ive said it for a while and I’ll say it again, there is bordering on an obsession in some quarters to try and eliminate Druitt. Ive never understood it. No one gets so uptight about the many suspects that have nothing going for them apart from being breathing at the time. Yet we get one mentioned as ‘likely’ by the Chief Constable of the Met and there are calls for him to be eliminated…..not even considered. Beyond strange imo.

[Losmandris]

There is no nitpicking the MM has been proved to be incorrcet and therefore is unsafe to rely on its as simple as that

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Has it? And it proved that he didn't have some additional information about MJD?

[Herlock Sholmes]

If Trevors right about Ostrog being in jail ,Macnaughten was both.

Wrong, there’s an article that you should read but I can’t reference it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Have you listened to the podcast Tristan ?

I have. Did you hear some proof to eliminate Druitt that I didn’t hear?

[Herlock Sholmes]

There is no nitpicking the MM has been proved to be incorrcet and therefore is unsafe to rely on its as simple as that

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Utter rubbish.

[FISHY1118]

Wrong, there’s an article that you should read but I can’t reference it.

Maybe you should let Trevor know, it was his claim but id like to see it .

[FISHY1118]

I have. Did you hear some proof to eliminate Druitt that I didn’t hear?

Proof ,No . But then ive never seen proof that Sickert was in France at the time of the Whitechapel murders, yet some people have eliminated him as a stand alone suspect without it. Go figure.

[GBinOz]

Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
There is no nitpicking the MM has been proved to be incorrcet and therefore is unsafe to rely on its as simple as that

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Utter rubbish.

To be fair Herlock, of the information MM provided on his three suspects, almost all of it was wrong for all three. I listened to the podcast and agree that there is nothing in the content to exclude his having been able to be in London for Nichols and Chapman, but I think Ally made a good point in saying that while the possibility exists, the probabilities accumulate against him. Like her I wonder why he would have passed by potential victims to make the 50 minute each way walk to Bucks Row from Kings Bench Walk?

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

Proof ,No . But then ive never seen proof that Sickert was in France at the time of the Whitechapel murders, yet some people have eliminated him as a stand alone suspect without it. Go figure.

As far as I’m aware Sickert, like Druitt and other suspects, can’t be elimnated on the basis of having a provable alibi. The evidence, as far as I can recall, points to hm being in France at the time of one of the murders but it’s not absolutely confirmed. So we cannot definitively eliminate him on that basis. But there’s also no evidence that Sickert was the ripper so why is that unimportant and yet it’s important to say that there’s no evidence for Druitt? Surely all suspects should have the same criteria applied?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
There is no nitpicking the MM has been proved to be incorrcet and therefore is unsafe to rely on its as simple as that

www.trevormarriott.co.uk



To be fair Herlock, of the information MM provided on his three suspects, almost all of it was wrong for all three. I listened to the podcast and agree that there is nothing in the content to exclude his having been able to be in London for Nichols and Chapman, but I think Ally made a good point in saying that while the possibility exists, the probabilities accumulate against him. Like her I wonder why he would have passed by potential victims to make the 50 minute each way walk to Bucks Row from Kings Bench Walk?

Cheers, George

I really can’t see why it’s such an issue when Macnaughten said that he was 41 when he was actually 31 or that he was a Doctor instead of the son of a Doctor. After all he wasn’t undertaking a full scale investigation into Druitt so when he was given his ‘private info’ why would he have needed to check Druitt’s age?

I don’t think that the probabilities accumulate against him one iota to be honest George. We can only speculate of course but if we speculate that Druitt might have been a serial killer how can we judge him by the standards of a normal person.

How many prostitutes solicited around Kings Bench Walk?
How do we know that Druitt hadn’t used prostitutes in Whitechapel before so this was just the area that he chose?
Why do we assume that he travelled from Blandford to London purely to commit murder?
Why is it so unbelievable that a Barrister and Cricket Club Secretary might have had a meeting sometime during the day on the 31st?
Druitt would have had more than ample time to have done so, including a nights sleep, with absolutely no issue at all.
Is it unlikely that a serial killer might have thought about murder long before actually making the leap?
And if the above is reasonable, and it is, why is it so unlikely that, being late at night, Druitt decided to go and find a prostitute and this, for whatever reason ended up as his first murder?

Were any of Sutcliffe’s murders unlikely. He travelled to various red light areas. He would undoubtedly have passed geographically closer potential victims.

Druitt imo is no less likely than other suspect.

[jmenges]

On JtRForums the following comment was made
“I did notice Lechmere also being referenced in the Druitt podcast, which is amusing as if one thing in 'Ripperology' is certain, Lechmere will never be separately discussed on that podcast channel.”

Total nonsense, of course.

Christer Holmgren is welcome to come on at any time to discuss the Lechmere theory and his book.
All he has to do is ask.

JM

[Wickerman]

...... There is little evidence against MJD other than Macnaghten's secret information, which may amount to nothing more than chinese whispers amongst the idle rich. We won't know because MM said he destroyed that information to protect those involved.

Much of this hearsay 'information' has surfaced in recent years, so we know such rumors existed.

That said, I find MJD an interesting mystery fully worthy of discussion, I just can't see that there is evidence for him being JtR.

Exactly, much the same as every other suspect.
Yet, those same theorists who choose to dismiss Druitt, still will assert their own suspect is more viable.
There isn't any evidence against anyone, so Druitt is no more, but no less viable than every other suspect.
(I use the term 'suspect' loosely here)