Rippercast Ep. 52 'All Hope Abandoned': The Titanic Tragedy- Listener Questions

[jmenges]

Hi all,

Rippercast will record its 52nd full-panel episode this Sunday, April 15th.

All Hope Abandoned: The Titanic Tragedy

with Titanic passenger researcher Ben Holme, filmaker and Titanic buff Justin Dombrowski, historian and editor of Ripperologist Chris George, historian, researcher and lecturer Mike Covell, and hopefully, my partner-in-podcast Ally Ryder.

I still think there is room for a passenger or two to sit in on this podcast so if you'd like to join the discussion, PM me before Sunday.

The show will record at 10am PCT, 1pm EST, 5pm GMT.

We will cover all aspects of the life of the RMS Titanic. From its construction to its maiden passengers, its sinking to its discovery and beyond, along with the passengers connections to the Whitechapel murders.

If listeners have any questions they would like to ask our panelists on the show, please have them either posted in this thread, PM'ed to me on Casebook, JtRForums, Facebooked to Jonathan Menges, Twittered @jmenges, or emailed to makhno9 at gmail.com.

Thanks for listening!

And Stay Tuned,



JM

[Archaic]

Question

Hi Jon.

I have a question for your panel; or perhaps I should say an issue I'd like to hear discussed.

I was listening to a radio segment that discussed the fact that passengers aboard the Titanic stayed remarkably civil throughout their ordeal- and this despite the fact that there were too few lifeboats, the ship was sinking in the farthest reaches of the North Atlantic, the waters were deadly cold, and there was virtually no hope of rescue.
This phenomena was contrasted with the sinking of the Lusitania just 3 years later, whose passengers did panic and "fight for survival" after their ship was struck by a German torpedo.

I was mulling it over and trying to account for the different responses. It occurred to me that there might have been a different response between the two sets of passengers because the supposedly "unsinkable" Titanic struck an iceberg, which the passengers might have viewed as an "Act of God", whereas the Lusitania was sunk by a violent act of human beings.

But on the other hand, the Lusitania was much nearer to land and its passengers had a much better chance of being rescued by other boats, whereas the majority of the Titanic's passengers faced certain death.

What would your guests identify as the reasons that the reactions on the two ships were so different? What were the conditions that enabled passengers aboard the Titanic able to maintain their calm and let women and children board the lifeboats first?

- Was it actually the realization that they were facing certain death?

I'm looking forward to the podcast.

Thank you,
Archaic

[jmenges]

Thanks Bunny for your question which I will be sure to bring up on the podcast.

My first thought about it is this- that the panic on the Lusitania was in a part caused just because it happened after the sinking of the Titanic and its horrendous loss of life.

JM

[Archaic]

Hi Jon, how are you?

I can certainly see your point there. I hadn't thought of that.

I was thinking that maybe the couple of hours it took the Titanic to sink gave people time to pray and "make their peace with God", and that contributed to the incredible calm and courage displayed by so many.

And I think the courage of many individuals, including the ship's band, in turned calmed and inspired others.

Thanks,
Archaic

[Phil Carter]

Hello JM,

I have a question for Ben, perhaps all to discuss. It relates to the (fairly) recent investigation into the quality and the use of the rivets used in production and manufacture of the hull.

How do you regard this argument in regard to the relative ease of damage sustained?

Best wishes

Phil

[jmenges]

Thanks for your question, Phil.
I have a few 'rivet-counter' topics jotted down myself and will add yours to the discussion.

All the best.

JM

[jmenges]

Hi Jon, how are you?

I can certainly see your point there. I hadn't thought of that.

I was thinking that maybe the couple of hours it took the Titanic to sink gave people time to pray and "make their peace with God", and that contributed to the incredible calm and courage displayed by so many.

And I think the courage of many individuals, including the ship's band, in turned calmed and inspired others.

Thanks,
Archaic

It was not all rosy and standing around heroically, btw. Testimony at the inquiries (esp. that of Joseph Scarrott, A.B. on the Titanic) told of passengers rushing the lifeboats (specifically #14) and that he had to use "persuasion" to keep them back. Also we know of 5th officer Harold Lowe, who admitted to firing a gun three times to keep "a lot of Italians" from jumping into lifeboat #15 as it was being lowered down the side of the ship.

There was panic.

JM

[Phil Carter]

Thanks for your question, Phil.
I have a few 'rivet-counter' topics jotted down myself and will add yours to the discussion.

All the best.

JM

Hello JM,

there was an investigation done re the quality of the rivet material done and shown on either History channel or Discovery a few yeas ago (I cant remember which)
the conclusion being that the poor quality and spacing used (cost saving) had a detremental effect on the hull being so easily ripped apart. Forgive me for scant details, am going on memory!
Good luck with the programme!

Best wishes

Phil

[Archaic]

Human Remains? / Graveyard vs. Salvage?

Hi Jon. I have a few more questions for you. They're related to the subject of human remains.

We've all seen the touching photos of pairs of leather shoes lying on the seabed, marking the place where a human body came to rest.
In those cases all flesh and bone appears to be gone now, but-

1. Does your panel believe there are still human remains within the ruins of Titanic? Is it physically possible that some kind of very small partial human remains might still be inside the ship, perhaps locked within a passenger cabin or inside some kind of hatch?


I heard a story- I don't know if it's true- that a salvage expedition picked up a gold ring from the sand of the sea-floor, only to discover that there was still a human finger-bone inside. It's said they immediately re-buried the ring and the bone in the sand and left that area.

2.Does your panel know if this story is true? Would sand preserve a bone at those depths?


3.Do the members of your panel feel, like Bob Ballard, that the Titanic is a "graveyard" and conducting any kind of 'salvage' operation desecrates it and should be forbidden by international law? Or do they feel that it's better to bring up artifacts in order to learn from them and preserve them for history?

Thanks very much Jon, and my thanks to your guests. I'm really looking forward to the podcast!
Archaic

[Archaic]

Remains of a Titanic Passenger?

Hi Jon.

This is the photo that got me thinking about the possibility of human remains... maybe a few teeth, or maybe something more.

The photo appears to show the shoe and garments of one of Titanic's passengers who came to rest on the sea-floor.

The shoe-leather has been preserved all these years because it's tanned. If the large dark matter above the shoe is truly a garment, I'm thinking it must have been either a tanned leather coat or something like a heavily-treated oil-skin coat.

I have no idea if a bit of organic human material could have been preserved under it, embedded in the silt.

I find this photo very poignant and thought-provoking.

Thanks,
Archaic

[BillyE]

Jonathan, I've been studying the Titanic sinking for a number of years now, and would love to join you on the podcast, but alas I have to work that Sunday, and won't be able to log on.

On the subject of issues to bring up, I'd like to hear you talk a little about Violet Jessop, who survived not only the Titanic, but the Britannic, and the near sinking of the Olympic! Her's is a very interesting story.

Also the story of the German boys who were being spirited away to America by their father, who was going through a bitter divorce with the boys' mother. I'm sure scholors of the disaster are familiar with these two stories.

Look forward to listening to this episode.

[Archaic]

Hi Jon, I was wondering if you know when the podcast about the Titanic might be available?

Thanks very much,
Archaic

[Steadmund Brand]

Hello Jon.

I Hope all is well, and I look foward to a new Rippercast, I just wanted to write again and tell you what a fan I am of the podcasts.

thank you for all your great work.

Steadmund Brand

[Iain Wilson]

Hi,

I hope everything is well. I've just caught up with the podcasts (I really enjoyed #51) and was wondering if #52 is on its way soon?

Cheers,

Iain

[Ally]

Hi guys. I don't want to speak for Jonathon, but know he's got some things going on right now that probably are consuming his time and he's not able to check the boards. The Titanic podcast occurred, and rather like the ship itself, fell prey to disaster, in this case, technological problems that resulted in the entire thing being destroyed. One could call it irony, or fate, or whatever. I am not sure when the next podcast will be, but I am looking forward to it as well.