channel five documentry!

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

There are contemporary newspaper reports that state that although Buck's Row is described as an ill-lit street in some reports, it was actually reasonably well lit. The lamps on the map would seem to show that it wasn't at all bad for the time.

There are newspaper sketches which show a lamp very close (opposite) to the stable yard entrance, which has always intrigued me, as there is a photo in Matters, I think it is, that shows a bollard in exactly that position. It could be that the newspaper artists just stuck it in to make the sketch more interesting, as the sketch would have been lopsided otherwise!

Anyway, the programme was right. Lol.

Hugs

Janie

xxxx

[Phil Carter]

Paul and I fought against TV company 'wisdom' to ensure that no suspect mentioned got put forward as a 'prime suspect'.

JB

Hello John,

That is very reassuring to hear, and may I personally thank you both for this important intervention. As I said, I look forward to Pt2.

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Hello Caz, (and good afternoon)

What you write is indeed very true. I cxannot agree more. It is, of course, from the viewpoint of one lone killer. If Stride is taken out of the equasion, we have two. Both unknown. That starts the complications. So any expanse upon that, becomes unacceptable to some.
But I agree, with the hypothesis you put forward...it would be far far easier with one name, one chase, one catch.

best wishes, as always

Phil

[Nemo]

Hi John

In the documentary Jake places a lamp directly across the road from Nichols' body, whereas that map you have posted shows the lamp much further down the street on the same side

[Jane Coram]

Hi Nemo,

I'm hope I'm not answering for John, but there are contemporary newspaper sketches showing a lampost directly opposite the stable yard, as I mentioned in my previous post.

Perhaps there was actually a lamp there and it just wasn't marked on the map for some reason? I've always wondered about it myself, but there certainly is some evidence that there was a lamp there.

Hopefully John can clear it up for both of us!

Janie

xxxx

[Nemo]

Thanks for that Jane, though I've been reliably informed that this street lamp across the road from the gates did not exist - I have a personal interest as I too re-create the crime scenes via computer graphics

I'm never certain whether to rely on newspaper sketches, a lot of artistic licence seems to have been utilised

There are newspaper reports, such as PC Neil stating that "It was dark at the time, though there was a street lamp shining at the end of the row."

Also, "It was dark, but there was a street lamp on the opposite side some distance away."

At the inquest the coroner remarked on the darkness of the spot

Doesn't sound like there was a lamp within a few yards of the murder spot to me...

[Monty]

Thanks for that Jane, though I've been reliably informed that this street lamp across the road from the gates did not exist - I have a personal interest as I too re-create the crime scenes via computer graphics

I'm never certain whether to rely on newspaper sketches, a lot of artistic licence seems to have been utilised

There are newspaper reports, such as PC Neil stating that "It was dark at the time, though there was a street lamp shining at the end of the row."

Also, "It was dark, but there was a street lamp on the opposite side some distance away."

At the inquest the coroner remarked on the darkness of the spot

Doesn't sound like there was a lamp within a few yards of the murder spot to me...

The map, which John has kindly provided, is missing one lamp. The one Neill mentions. Ive highlighted in green.

Nemo, anyone, there is another photo which Im not to sure about but does show a lamp. Im not going to post it here however if anyone wishes to see it PM me, I'll explain my reasons if you do.

Monty

[Nemo]

Hi Monty

I was looking at that and it does appear to be representing something like a lamp, though, in my opinion, PC Neil would not have described the lamp across the road as "some distance" away

Most references I find state that there was only one lamp at the East end of the road, implying maybe that the other lamps may have been present but not working

I'll go and check the Ultimate...

[Nemo]

Having checked the Ultimate Source Book, I would just add that Emma Green, Charles Cross, Robert Paul, PC Neil, and coroner Baxter all remarked how dark the spot was where Nichols was found

[Lechmere]

When they found Nichols, they didn't notice that her eyes were open nor her throat cut. Cross thought that the body was a tarpaulin and only noticed Paul when he was 40 yards away. None of this makes sense with a lamp only about ten yards away - even if the light given off was feeble.
Also I find it unlikley that such an unimportant by-way would be so well lit.

[Observer]

40 yards??? If it was as dark as you suggest then Cross would not have detected Paul at 40 feet !

[Rob Clack]

I don't think there was a lamp by Essex Wharf as depicted in the program. I believe it was a short distance to the West just before Schneiders.

This is where I think it was, the same place marked in green by Monty.



Rob

[Monty]

The location of the lamp seemed ok to my Rob however I've only seen the doc once so I'm willing to be corrected.

Bearing in mind we aren't permitted to show William Stewarts photos here anymore, the shot looking towards Brady st shows a free standing lamp on the north side.

Is that contemporary in your view?

Monty

[Lechmere]

Bucks Row was an exceptionally well lit road then. I find it difficult to believe that all the accounts I have read emphasise the darkness of it.

[Lechmere]

Are you sure of the date the picture was taken. A lot of gas lights were installed after 1890.