channel five documentry!

[Nemo]

Having checked the Ultimate Source Book, I would just add that Emma Green, Charles Cross, Robert Paul, PC Neil, and coroner Baxter all remarked how dark the spot was where Nichols was found

[Nemo]

Hi Monty

I was looking at that and it does appear to be representing something like a lamp, though, in my opinion, PC Neil would not have described the lamp across the road as "some distance" away

Most references I find state that there was only one lamp at the East end of the road, implying maybe that the other lamps may have been present but not working

I'll go and check the Ultimate...

[Monty]

Thanks for that Jane, though I've been reliably informed that this street lamp across the road from the gates did not exist - I have a personal interest as I too re-create the crime scenes via computer graphics

I'm never certain whether to rely on newspaper sketches, a lot of artistic licence seems to have been utilised

There are newspaper reports, such as PC Neil stating that "It was dark at the time, though there was a street lamp shining at the end of the row."

Also, "It was dark, but there was a street lamp on the opposite side some distance away."

At the inquest the coroner remarked on the darkness of the spot

Doesn't sound like there was a lamp within a few yards of the murder spot to me...

The map, which John has kindly provided, is missing one lamp. The one Neill mentions. Ive highlighted in green.

Nemo, anyone, there is another photo which Im not to sure about but does show a lamp. Im not going to post it here however if anyone wishes to see it PM me, I'll explain my reasons if you do.

Monty

[Nemo]

Thanks for that Jane, though I've been reliably informed that this street lamp across the road from the gates did not exist - I have a personal interest as I too re-create the crime scenes via computer graphics

I'm never certain whether to rely on newspaper sketches, a lot of artistic licence seems to have been utilised

There are newspaper reports, such as PC Neil stating that "It was dark at the time, though there was a street lamp shining at the end of the row."

Also, "It was dark, but there was a street lamp on the opposite side some distance away."

At the inquest the coroner remarked on the darkness of the spot

Doesn't sound like there was a lamp within a few yards of the murder spot to me...

[Jane Coram]

Hi Nemo,

I'm hope I'm not answering for John, but there are contemporary newspaper sketches showing a lampost directly opposite the stable yard, as I mentioned in my previous post.

Perhaps there was actually a lamp there and it just wasn't marked on the map for some reason? I've always wondered about it myself, but there certainly is some evidence that there was a lamp there.

Hopefully John can clear it up for both of us!

Janie

xxxx

[Nemo]

Hi John

In the documentary Jake places a lamp directly across the road from Nichols' body, whereas that map you have posted shows the lamp much further down the street on the same side

[Phil Carter]

Hello Caz, (and good afternoon)

What you write is indeed very true. I cxannot agree more. It is, of course, from the viewpoint of one lone killer. If Stride is taken out of the equasion, we have two. Both unknown. That starts the complications. So any expanse upon that, becomes unacceptable to some.
But I agree, with the hypothesis you put forward...it would be far far easier with one name, one chase, one catch.

best wishes, as always

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Paul and I fought against TV company 'wisdom' to ensure that no suspect mentioned got put forward as a 'prime suspect'.

JB

Hello John,

That is very reassuring to hear, and may I personally thank you both for this important intervention. As I said, I look forward to Pt2.

best wishes

Phil

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

There are contemporary newspaper reports that state that although Buck's Row is described as an ill-lit street in some reports, it was actually reasonably well lit. The lamps on the map would seem to show that it wasn't at all bad for the time.

There are newspaper sketches which show a lamp very close (opposite) to the stable yard entrance, which has always intrigued me, as there is a photo in Matters, I think it is, that shows a bollard in exactly that position. It could be that the newspaper artists just stuck it in to make the sketch more interesting, as the sketch would have been lopsided otherwise!

Anyway, the programme was right. Lol.

Hugs

Janie

xxxx

[caz]

You see...if the answers to all the problems is a simple solution, and that we shouldn't over investigate and dissect... then why isn't the obvious answer to many of the problems staring us straight in the face? The answers, to my mind at least, are that perhaps it could just be a darn sight more involved and difficult than the simple possible answers give us. If the simple solution isnt the answer..it must be more complicated.

Morning Phil,

This is not really the place for it, but briefly, the 'problems' to which I suspect you refer are mainly in the eye of the beholder, and for those of us who don't see them the simple solution is very much the answer and need not be any more complicated.

A serial offender, responsible for many, if not most of the WM, gives us the simplest explanation by far for our collective inability to have found a solution yet. Any scenario other than a stranger, with no discernible connection to any of the murders, attacking for no tangible motive until he stops or is stopped, is more likely to have provided us with a solution by now.

So the one and only problem I see is that we have no identity for this man and no way of discovering it beyond doubt. If we did, I imagine the 'problems' you see now would simply dissolve into thin air. So much would become crystal clear.

Love,

Caz
X

[John Bennett]

I look forward to Part 2. I hope not, but fear, the promotion of a prime suspect called Kosminski.

Paul and I fought against TV company 'wisdom' to ensure that no suspect mentioned got put forward as a 'prime suspect'.

JB

[John Bennett]

This probably isn't the place to discuss it but everything I have ever read on the subject says that the nearest street light to the Bucks Row event was on the corner of Brady Street, yet the film showed two extra lights actually down Bucks Row

The lighting depicted is correct Lechmere.

Monty

Here is the map with lamps shown as used by Jake for reference:

[Gideon Fell]

I just watched it again too and, the first time, Begg definitely says 20th. An inexplicable but, given the overall quality of the production, minor, mistake.

A mere slip o' the tongue, he immediately stated the date correctly only moments later.

[Monty]

This probably isn't the place to discuss it but everything I have ever read on the subject says that the nearest street light to the Bucks Row event was on the corner of Brady Street, yet the film showed two extra lights actually down Bucks Row

The lighting depicted is correct Lechmere.

Monty

[The Grave Maurice]

I just watched it again too and, the first time, Begg definitely says 20th. An inexplicable but, given the overall quality of the production, minor, mistake.