Whitechapel

[Jeff Leahy]

You’re not too far off there. When we were allowed to own handguns in the UK, some of the regular attendees at our shooting club were police officers who unashamedly came there to be taught how to shoot properly!

When they were debating whether to outlaw all shooting clubs I predicted a fall off in the expertise of police marksmen if they did. They did and the results are there to see.

One of my oppos from days gone by was an ex SAS trooper who joined South Wales Police. He applied to join the firearms team and had a difficult time getting in as it was explained to him the police didn’t really like ex forces people because they knew how to handle firearms.

Anyway when shooting clubs were allowed and police got extra training there, the required standard for police marksmen was hitting a man size target at fifty metres with a 9mm handgun 45 times out of 50. Now that is pretty rubbish shooting by all accounts, at that range a pretty standard shot should be able to place them all inside a dinner plate, a good shot within a saucer and a very good shot within a lens cap.

After the shooting clubs were shut down and the police were no longer getting extra training there, the standard went down to 35 hits out of 50 rounds, which is ridiculous. That means if you fire 50 rounds you have no idea where 15 of them have gone. At that stage my mate quit the firearms team. As he explained to me he literally felt he had more to fear from his colleagues than the criminals.

To give you an idea police marksmen usually shoot 25 rounds a week in practice if the budget allows. When I used to go to the range once a week on a Saturday I used to shoot about 300 – 500 rounds, and I was only keeping my hand in – not preparing myself for combat. When you are training seriously for real use you should be firing some 2 to 3 thousand rounds a week.

I’m afraid British firearms teams have been brought up on too many scare stories about guns, and generally speaking they are just not comfortable with them.

I want it known that Bob Hinton is a wonderful friendly and peace loving man who I respect and honour at all times. And the fact that I have just discovered that he is a crack marksmen hasn’t influenced that decision in any way what so ever

Big shout and respect to Bob

Yours, very cowardly, but looking forward to conference, Pirate

[chrismasonic]

is that story real?
multiple rounds through a fifty pence piece at 25 metres using a colt .44?
what model .44?

[Jeff Leahy]

is that story real?
multiple rounds through a fifty pence piece at 25 metres using a colt .44?
what model .44?

I'm not certain. However I do know a little about Prince Rupert. Who is supposed to have shot a weather **** on top of a church with one bullet from an old hand held musket shot. Certainly better than your fifty pence peice.

Pirate..King and country..down with the round heads

Ps Sorry about C**k which i meant but perhaps better called weather thing

[Pablito]

No, its Francis Tumblety. My mistake.

[Pablito]

Its definately Tumblety in Bunhill fields...Santa Claus told me

[Pablito]

I like Hutchinson as a suspect. Mind you i also thought two of Jacks victims, and Francis Tumblety, Mother Teresa, and Lord Lucan were buried in Bumhill Fields

[Mike Covell]

I like Hutchinson as a suspect. Mind you i also thought two of Jacks victims, and Francis Tumblety, Mother Teresa, and Lord Lucan were buried in Bumhill Fields

Red Rum is also down there, as is Hoffa, The Real Elvis, The original Paul McCartney and the Gunman from the Grassy Knoll!

[Steve S]

I'm not certain. However I do know a little about Prince Rupert. Who is supposed to have shot a weather **** on top of a church with one bullet from an old hand held musket shot. Certainly better than your fifty pence peice.

Pirate..King and country..down with the round heads

Ps Sorry about C**k which i meant but perhaps better called weather thing

ECW geek head on.......They were rifled pistols,(very rare & expensive,but around)....If I remember correctly,It was at Lichfield,& when Charles I said it was a fluke,Rupe repeated it with the other pistol.......
Steve

[chrismasonic]

regarding the super extraordinary shooting
he can't mean an old walker colt .44...or one of them custom barrel .44anaconda models...
i've fired both of them and those examples sound too far fetched...
i'm not doubting he may be a good shot...but this story is less accurate

[Baron Von Chambers]

I think the whole show has been a good yarn, watched it with my mate Sheila Monday. We've been playing our favourite game of six degrees of David Tennant off it.

[Stewart P Evans]

Police Firearms Users

I don't know what force the police firearms user that Bob knew belonged to but he wouldn't have lasted long on our unit.

I was a police firearms user for six years and I was on the Tactical Firearms team (known as S.W.A.T. in the USA) for over a year. The weapons I used, which was over 20 years ago now, were as follows -
Standard sidearm a Smith and Wesson Model 19 .357 revolver (in polished nickel), personalised.
Remington pump-action 12-bore shotgun, combat spec., firing various shot charges, including buckshot.
Miroku sawn-off 12 bore shotgun, parallel barrels, which was used to fire, as well as standard cartridges, rifle slug (now illegal) and CS gas cartridges.
Ruger Mini 14 (.223) for long range (but not the force snipers' weapon).

Nowadays the standard sidearm is the Glock 17.

Training was intensive and our team leader/sergeant was an ex-marine. We fired in excess of 300 rounds per session in firearms training and the pass mark to stay on the team was 49 out of 50 rounds on target from the maximum combat handgun range of 25 yards down to close-quarters at 7 yards where we fired quick-draw 'double-taps' (point aim).

If Bob's police pals were of the standard he states then I really cannot imagine how they could be classed as police marksmen. On one occasion one of our teams tackled an armed villain who had already shot one policeman. They took him out, clinically, with three 'double-taps', with five out of six hits.

We endured intensive combat training and had to strip our firearms down to component parts and re-assemble them in full combat gear, including body armour, flak helmets and gas masks, while the instructor sprayed CS gas onto any exposed skin he could see, including our necks. That was painful.

[Monty]

Blimey Stewart

You took no risks with them Miners!

[Suzi]

Look chaps-

It was a reasonable enough take on a great yarn- Also it drove hubby mad with me crouched in front of the tele saying FFS every now and again...MANY mistakes....many laughs....some great books.....a great game in view though

AND Don't forget the 'omage to 'the deerstalker'!

..That's a deerstalker not a DEER stalker- that's another story!!!!

As a by the by-
I've fired guns and cannon but it doesn't make me want to take them into Tesco- or anywhere else to be honest....Well maybe Sainsburys or Tesco next Monday morning when I may pack the old Derringer in the handbag!......... OPEN THAT TILL!!!!!!!!!!!! I've got to get to work!!

[Suzi]

You took no risks with them Miners!

Miners-The make-up Mont or the poor sods down them mines?

[Stewart P Evans]

Miners

You took no risks with them Miners!

It was because I was a firearms user that I made only four trips up north during the miners' strike (trained firearms users were normally required to stay in the force area as they were on call), and the miners I got to know were great guys and very friendly.

If we fired magnum rounds in our Smith and Wessons (the model 19 was magnum chambered) it became a bit painful during prolonged use because of the heavier recoil given by the magnum rounds. The training was so rigorous (it was designed for maximum stress to make sure you wouldn't break down) that I would be unable to do it now.