Morris Lewis Revisited

[jerryd]

I just realized that news clip said she was not seen on the previous night in Ringers. Not in the morning. Sorry

[jerryd]

The first thing we need to establish about Mrs Marple's post is if the landlady actually said what Mrs Marple claims she said, of which I am yet to see a contemporary source reference.

Hello David,

I did find this but no mention of who the source was.

Echo London Middlesex November 13, 1888

There is a beer-shop at the corner of Dorset-street, but, according to information furnished within a few hours of the discovery of the murder, the woman Kelly did not have any drink in the house on the previous night.

[David Orsam]

going back to Miss marples post-do we know if the landlady knew who mary Kelly was?

The first thing we need to establish about Mrs Marple's post is if the landlady actually said what Mrs Marple claims she said, of which I am yet to see a contemporary source reference.

[Abby Normal]

The procession left the Guildhall at shortly after 12.30pm.

Ok thanks david for this and your other posts.

going back to Miss marples post-do we know if the landlady knew who mary Kelly was?

[David Orsam]

Hi jr
Not really IMHO, and I've said much before. Is it also plausible she would be in any shape to to pick up a punter/sex?

I can think of no physical reason why someone who has just vomited cannot then eat, drink or pick up a punter for sex nor can I see why this cannot be said to be plausible.

[David Orsam]

Hi David
I know from personal experience, having gotten sick and vomited from food poisoning, as well as drinking too much/hung over that there was nothing that could come up anymore. But admittedly after a couple of rounds of it.

If Mary had only had one bout of vomiting then I could possibly see there being some remnants.

I just know though from my own experience though it's usually all or nothing.

I don't think there is any question of food poisoning here. Unless someone with medical knowledge tells us that vomiting through excessive consumption of alcohol will empty the entire contents of the stomach there isn't anything in the point.

[David Orsam]

I think to suggest she was killed after 10 in the morning is pushing the envelope too far. The doctors were not idiots and a ball park of Mary being killed in the early hours makes more sense.
Does one believe the doctors and her friends and the landlady of Ringers or does one believe Lewis and Maxwell?

The doctors were certainly not idiots Miss Marple but, at the same time, it wasn't possible for them to accurately estimate the time of MJK's death when they carried out their examination shortly after 1pm.

I'm also wondering which of MJK's friends had any information about the time that she was murdered.

[David Orsam]

The landlady at the Brittainia, said MK was not in the pub that morning, the pub was not very busy.

Where can I find this stated by the landlady of the Britannia, Miss Marple?

[David Orsam]

Hey
Just thought of something.
What time was the lord mayers show to start?

The procession left the Guildhall at shortly after 12.30pm.

[Abby Normal]

hi all

I can accept a TOD for Kelly between 8-10, its tight time wise, but cannot be conclusively ruled out on the medical evidence.

after 10 in my humble opinion is out just due to the time taken and the time of discovery.

i still prefer a killing at 3.30-4am, but the 2 sightings open the possibility of a later TOD.

Joshua, i have replied to your pm, just incase its not showing up again.

Steve

agree with this.

[Abby Normal]

The landlady at the Brittainia, said MK was not in the pub that morning, the pub was not very busy. Lewis and Maxwell match each other in terms of timings but their description of MK does not match the descriptions of those who know her well.There are two irreconcilable accounts of Mary's last hours.

I think to suggest she was killed after 10 in the morning is pushing the envelope too far. The doctors were not idiots and a ball park of Mary being killed in the early hours makes more sense.
Does one believe the doctors and her friends and the landlady of Ringers or does one believe Lewis and Maxwell?

Miss Marple

Hi MM
interesting points. Do we know if the landlady knew Mary?

anyone else care to expound or refute?

[Abby Normal]

Apologies Abby, I said the roads closed at 11am earlier, when they were actually closed from 10am onwards;

http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18881107.html

Thanks JR
of course the reason I brought it up was that mary had indicated she wanted to go. and according to Maxwell and lewis and the idea of her picking a man up in the morning and bringing him back to her house seems to indicate she didn't care about going perhaps?

[Elamarna]

hi all

I can accept a TOD for Kelly between 8-10, its tight time wise, but cannot be conclusively ruled out on the medical evidence.

after 10 in my humble opinion is out just due to the time taken and the time of discovery.

i still prefer a killing at 3.30-4am, but the 2 sightings open the possibility of a later TOD.

Joshua, i have replied to your pm, just incase its not showing up again.

Steve

[Joshua Rogan]

The landlady at the Brittainia, said MK was not in the pub that morning, the pub was not very busy. Lewis and Maxwell match each other in terms of timings but their description of MK does not match the descriptions of those who know her well.There are two irreconcilable accounts of Mary's last hours.

I think to suggest she was killed after 10 in the morning is pushing the envelope too far. The doctors were not idiots and a ball park of Mary being killed in the early hours makes more sense.
Does one believe the doctors and her friends and the landlady of Ringers or does one believe Lewis and Maxwell?

Miss Marple

I've sort of formed the opinion that all the descriptions of Kelly seemed to vary, but have you, or anyone, done a comparison of witness descriptions?

[Joshua Rogan]

Hey
Just thought of something.
What time was the lord mayers show to start?

Apologies Abby, I said the roads closed at 11am earlier, when they were actually closed from 10am onwards;

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/times/18881107.html