Morris Lewis Revisited

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

We can argue about Mrs Maxwell for years and will never get to the truth, but Lewis is another question. His description is so far removed from any other description of MK as to seem to be a different woman and does not match the remains on the bed which appear to be of a taller woman matching the 5,7 description of everyone else. A tall fair girl is not 5,3 short stout and dark.

I will check out your post on the reporting of Lewis and see if I can dig anything up.

Hi Miss Marple - yes, I said in my last post that your point about Lewis was a reasonable one and in my OP in this thread you will see that I put forward a reason to cast doubt on his veracity. At the same time, the point I have repeatedly made about Mrs Maxwell is that there is no real counter-evidence to contradict her testimony or to contradict the notion that MJK was alive at the time she said she saw her alive. That is not, in my opinion, a point that needs to be argued about for years! It's something that is fairly clear. At the same time, I'm not saying that Maxwell must have been correct and/or telling the truth, only that the evidence against her is not really present.

[curious4]

Ouch. Mrs Gut had hers out a few years back, good luck.

Thank you :-).

[curious4]

Thank for the favourable comment. I wish you a speedy recovery from whatever it is that places you in a hospital bed!

Hello Bridewell

Thank you :-)

Gallstones, it seems :-(! Hoping they won't have to operate. Nest of vampires this hospital, took five of them to squeeze out what little blood I have left this morning :-(.

Best wishes
Gwyneth

[Bridewell]

Hi David,

We can argue about Mrs Maxwell for years and will never get to the truth, but Lewis is another question. His description is so far removed from any other description of MK as to seem to be a different woman and does not match the remains on the bed which appear to be of a taller woman matching the 5,7 description of everyone else. A tall fair girl is not 5,3 short stout and dark.

Miss Marple

A couple of points on this:

A woman of 5' 3" would not, I think, have been seen as 'short' in the LVP.

How do you determine the height of MJK from the photograph of her remains with any degree of accuracy?

Care is needed with witnesses who use descriptive terms like 'fair' and 'dark'. Both can allude to hair colour, yes, but also to skin tone. 'Fair' can also refer to the observer's perception that the woman was physically attractive. The 'Fair Emma' reference with regard to MJK could even be suggesting a likeness to Lady Hamilton with whom she shared the nickname (as well as, perhaps, a tendency towards being overweight).

[Bridewell]

(From my hospital bed) at last, commonsense!

Best wishes
C4

Thank for the favourable comment. I wish you a speedy recovery from whatever it is that places you in a hospital bed!

[GUT]

Hello GUT, Steve,

Feeling much better already, thank you :-). Just waiting to hear what they have decided to do with my gallstones :-(.

Best wishes
C4

Ouch. Mrs Gut had hers out a few years back, good luck.

[curious4]

Hello GUT, Steve,

Feeling much better already, thank you :-). Just waiting to hear what they have decided to do with my gallstones :-(.

Best wishes
C4

[miss marple]

Hi David,

We can argue about Mrs Maxwell for years and will never get to the truth, but Lewis is another question. His description is so far removed from any other description of MK as to seem to be a different woman and does not match the remains on the bed which appear to be of a taller woman matching the 5,7 description of everyone else. A tall fair girl is not 5,3 short stout and dark.

I will check out your post on the reporting of Lewis and see if I can dig anything up.

Miss Marple

[GUT]

(From my hospital bed) at last, commonsense!

Best wishes
C4

Good luck.

[Elamarna]

(From my hospital bed) at last, commonsense!

Best wishes
C4

C4

i wish you well

Steve

[curious4]

On the subject of the fire in 13, Millers Court:


The three reasons advanced for its lighting are:-

Provision of Light

Provision of Heat

Destruction of Evidence.

The FBI view is that most, if not all, serial killers have earlier indulged in compulsive fire starting; it might, therefore, be the case that the killer lit a fire simply because he liked lighting fires.

(From my hospital bed) at last, commonsense!

Best wishes
C4

[David Orsam]

I have been busy and going out in a minute. Very quickly, The Brittania was called Ringers because the Landlord and landlady were Mr and Mrs Ringer.

Maurice Lewis description of MK was short, abour 5,3 Dark and stout.Lloyds Weekly News. Mrs Maxwell called her a' little woman'

To everyone else she was 5.7 tall, fair as a lily, Ginger possibly certainly not short and dark. I am certain Lewis got the wrong woman.
Paul BEGG talks about the Landlady being interviewed in The Facts I have not had time yet to check the newspaper sources. Will return to this later.
i think Lewis is completely wrong.

Hi Miss Marple,

Paul Begg's mention of the landlady's comment was discussed by John G and myself in the thread "Morris Lewis and the reporting of his story" but neither of us managed to find the source. I'd be interested to know if you can do any better.

Although MJK's height does not seem to have been established at the inquest, your point about Morris Lewis's estimate is a reasonable one but I think it's pushing it to take the reported remark of Mrs Maxwell about MJK being a "pleasant little woman" to indicate a case of mistaken identity. In the same interview, Maxwell said that she knew the woman she spoke to as "Mary Jane" and that she was stout with a fair complexion and came from Limerick and "had obviously been well connected" (as corroborated by Barnett's story about her past). It's difficult, I think, to argue from this that she had confused MJK with someone else.

[c.d.]

Hello Trevor. Thanks.

"A morning murder may point to a different killer?"

Indeed. It may also change many of our assumptions.

Cheers.
LC

I agree. Serial killers only kill at prescribed times. It's a union thing.

What's next I wonder? Different temperatures or humidity levels for each murder? Yep, a different killer.

c.d.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hello David,

I did find this but no mention of who the source was.

Echo London Middlesex November 13, 1888

There is a beer-shop at the corner of Dorset-street, but, according to information furnished within a few hours of the discovery of the murder, the woman Kelly did not have any drink in the house on the previous night.

Couldn't this equally be referring to the Horn of Plenty at the other end of Dorset St, rather than the Britannia / Ringers ?

[miss marple]

I have been busy and going out in a minute. Very quickly, The Brittania was called Ringers because the Landlord and landlady were Mr and Mrs Ringer.

Maurice Lewis description of MK was short, abour 5,3 Dark and stout.Lloyds Weekly News. Mrs Maxwell called her a' little woman'

To everyone else she was 5.7 tall, fair as a lily, Ginger possibly certainly not short and dark. I am certain Lewis got the wrong woman.
Paul BEGG talks about the Landlady being interviewed in The Facts I have not had time yet to check the newspaper sources. Will return to this later.
i think Lewis is completely wrong.

Miss Marple