Morris Lewis Revisited

[MysterySinger]

What do we really know for sure about Morris Lewis in the census records etc (or, for that matter, Caroline Maxwell).

[Pierre]

Hi David
is it possible Morris Lewis read of maxwells account first and used that for a fake sighting-for his 15 minutes of fame, instead of possible mistaken identity?

apologies in advance if you've already answered this or shown it couldn't be the case.

Hi,

probably not. It is much more likely that Lewis and Maxwell believed that Joe Barnett did it. This explains the tendencies in the sources. But Barnett did not do it.

Regards, Pierre

[curious4]

This pretty much sums up my own view too. Thanks for posting, David.

The problem with ten am is that Mary was planning to see the Lord Mayor's show (with sit-down meal for the poorest) and it began at 10 am I believe. Surely she would have left earlier not to miss anything and to claim a seat at the table? There is a report that she was found earlier, by a neighbour, and this makes sense if she was planning to go with friends. (Can't remember which book this is reported in and still a bit wobbly,on my legs, but it was one of the older ones quoting a relative of the woman who was said to have found her).

Best wishes
C4

[David Orsam]

The problem with ten am is that Mary was planning to see the Lord Mayor's show (with sit-down meal for the poorest) and it began at 10 am I believe. Surely she would have left earlier not to miss anything and to claim a seat at the table? There is a report that she was found earlier, by a neighbour, and this makes sense if she was planning to go with friends. (Can't remember which book this is reported in and still a bit wobbly,on my legs, but it was one of the older ones quoting a relative of the woman who was said to have found her).

As I've already mentioned in this thread, the Lord Mayor's procession departed from the Guildhall shortly after 12.30pm. The dinner of roast beef and plum pudding at the Great Assembly Hall in the Mile End Road was in the evening and was only for the poor residing in the workhouses.

[curious4]

As I've already mentioned in this thread, the Lord Mayor's procession departed from the Guildhall shortly after 12.30pm. The dinner of roast beef and plum pudding at the Great Assembly Hall in the Mile End Road was in the evening and was only for the poor residing in the workhouses.

imes (London)
Wednesday, 7 November 1888
LORD MAYOR'S DAY.
On Friday, from the hour of 10 a.m. until the Lord Mayor's Procession has returned to the Guildhall, and for such longer period as may be found necessary, the following streets and approaches thereto will be closed to all wheeled traffic:- Gresham-street west, St. Martin's-le-Grand, Cheapside, Poultry, Mansion-house-street, Cornhill, Leadenhall-street, Billiter-street, Fenchurch-street, Mincing-lane, Great Tower-street, Eastcheap, King William-street, Queen Victoria-street, Cannon-street, St. Paul's-churchyard, Ludgate-hill, Fleet-street, Victoria-embankment, Queen-street, and King-street. It is also ordered that no procession other than that of the Lord Mayor, nor any organized body of persons, shall on that day be or pass in or along any street or thoroughfare within the City of London and its liberties. The Lord Mayor Elect and Mr. A. J. Newton, Sheriff of London and Middlesex, have provided a treat for 2,000 destitute people at the East-end of London on Lord Mayor's Day. A substantial meat tea will be given them in the Tower Hamlets Mission-hall, of which Mr. F. N. Charrington is honorary superintendent, and it will be followed by an amusing entertainment. Mr. Charrington, writing to us from Great Assembly-hall, Mile-end, says that he will be thankful to receive any further contributions, as arrangements have been made for entertaining 3,000 persons. The Lord Mayor Elect has also, in addition to the benefactions which have been previously announced, arranged special and suitable gifts to the 80 inmates of the City of London Union now in hospital at Margate and to 260 children from the same union now in schools at Hanwell. The total number entertained on the 9th by the new Lord Mayor will exceed 10,000. No condition has been imposed except that the recipients shall be the poor and needy.

Related pages:
**Lord Mayor's Show
*******Press Reports:*Times [London] -

[David Orsam]

imes (London)
Wednesday, 7 November 1888
LORD MAYOR'S DAY.
On Friday, from the hour of 10 a.m. until the Lord Mayor's Procession has returned to the Guildhall, and for such longer period as may be found wheeled traffic:- Gresham-street west, St. Martin's-le-Grand, Cheapside, Poultry, Mansion-house-street, Cornhill, Leadenhall-street, Billiter-street, Fenchurch-street, Mincing-lane, Great Tower-street, Eastcheap, King William-street, Queen Victoria-street, Cannon-street, St. Paul's-churchyard, Ludgate-hill, Fleet-street, Victoria-embankment, Queen-street, and King-street. It is also ordered that no procession other than that of the Lord Mayor, nor any organized body of persons, shall on that day be or pass in or along any street or thoroughfare within the City of London and its liberties. The Lord Mayor Elect and Mr. A. J. Newton, Sheriff of London and Middlesex, have provided a necessary, the following streets and approaches thereto will be closed to all treat for 2,000 destitute people at the East-end of London on Lord Mayor's Day. A substantial meat tea will be given them in the Tower Hamlets Mission-hall, of which Mr. F. N. Charrington is honorary superintendent, and it will be followed by an amusing entertainment. Mr. Charrington, writing to us from Great Assembly-hall, Mile-end, says that he will be thankful to receive any further contributions, as arrangements have been made for entertaining 3,000 persons. The Lord Mayor Elect has also, in addition to the benefactions which have been previously announced, arranged special and suitable gifts to the 80 inmates of the City of London Union now in hospital at Margate and to 260 children from the same union now in schools at Hanwell. The total number entertained on the 9th by the new Lord Mayor will exceed 10,000. No condition has been imposed except that the recipients shall be the poor and needy.

10am is when they closed the roads.

[curious4]

https://lordmayorsshow.london/day/2012/order

http://www.fletchers.org.uk/800YearsLMS.pdf

The Lord Mayor's Show was a very long procession, with bands, floats, representatives of the armed forces etc. Would have taken some time to pass (see above for procession order from 2012, and pictures from earlier Shows.)

Best wishes
C4

[David Orsam]

https://lordmayorsshow.london/day/2012/order

http://www.fletchers.org.uk/800YearsLMS.pdf

The Lord Mayor's Show was a very long procession, with bands, floats, representatives of the armed forces etc. Would have taken some time to pass (see above for procession order from 2012, and pictures from earlier Shows.)

Forget 2012.

In 1888 the procession left the Guildhall shortly after 12.30pm, the roads having been closed to traffic for two and half hours prior to this. It arrived at the Royal Courts of Justice at around 2pm. It then returned to the Guildhall, arriving shortly before 4pm. This is all a matter of record.

[curious4]

Forget 2012.

In 1888 the procession left the Guildhall shortly after 12.30pm, the roads having been closed to traffic for two and half hours prior to this. It arrived at the Royal Courts of Justice at around 2pm. It then returned to the Guildhall, arriving shortly before 4pm. This is all a matter of record.

Would you be kind enough to point me in the direction of said record?

Best wishes
C4

[Simon Wood]

Hi Curious,

The Times, 10th November 1888.

Regards,

Simon

[curious4]

Hi Curious,

The Times, 10th November 1888.

Regards,

Simon

Thanks Simon!

Just puzzled as to why they would close off the streets so early.

C4

[curious4]

Hi Curious,

The Times, 10th November 1888.

Regards,

Simon

Not been able to find this. Can anyone help? Looked in Newpaper Archives but they don't seem to be complete - probably doing the search all wrong!

C4

[Pierre]

Not been able to find this. Can anyone help? Looked in Newpaper Archives but they don't seem to be complete - probably doing the search all wrong!

C4

Hi,

Try The Standard, November 7, p. 3, column 6, "Lord Mayor´s Day".

Regards, Pierre

[curious4]

Hi,

Try The Standard, November 7, p. 3, column 6, "Lord Mayor´s Day".

Regards, Pierre

Thanks Pierre

You couldn't oblige me by posting what it says, I suppose. My search ability is rather limited.

Best wishes
C4

[Pierre]

Thanks Pierre

You couldn't oblige me by posting what it says, I suppose. My search ability is rather limited.

Best wishes
C4

No problem.

Best wishes, Pierre