Israel Schwartz Observation

[Jon Guy]

Schwartz stated that the broad-shouldered man had nothing in his hands, whereas Smith's man had a rather conspicuous newspaper parcel. My guess is that Smith and Marshall saw the same man, but "broad-shoulders" was someone else.
Ben

There is that small hurdle of the newspaper parcel to overcome, Ben !!
Marshalls man didn`t have the newspaper parcel either.

Perhaps it was a Jumbo bag of Mrs Beetons Cashous which they hurriedly scoffed between them, leaving Liz with the few she was found with later.

I`ll have to go back and see what Sugden says.

[Ben]

Hey Jon,

Schwartz stated that the broad-shouldered man had nothing in his hands, whereas Smith's man had a rather conspicuous newspaper parcel. My guess is that Smith and Marshall saw the same man, but "broad-shoulders" was someone else.

Best regards,
Ben

[Jon Guy]

Hello

Having recently re-read Sugdens rather persuasive take on Marshall`s man, PC Smiths man and Schwartz` man all being B.S. Man. If this were the case, where does Liz loose PC Smith man and crosses the road to the Club gates to be accosted by BS Man ?

Does the following seems reasonable ?

PC Smith walks down Berner St seeing Stride and companion standing on the opposite side of the road a little further north of the club. When he passes Liz and companion stroll across the road to the club gates.

What Schwartz actually sees when he turns into Berner St is BS Man (or PC Smith`s man) crossing the road to the club gates to join Liz, after waiting for the Smith to pass on his beat.

Any comments on this scenario.

[Observer]

Good result for Sweden all the same Glenn

Observer

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Hey Observer,

I am not a great sports fan, but yes I have been watching it. However, when I wrote the last post the match hadn't started quite yet.

All the best

[Observer]

Hey Glenn are you not watching the football?

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Hello

The problem with Mortimer`s timing being out is that when PC Smith walked down Berner St on Mortimer`s side of the street he saw Stride standing talking to a man on the opposite side of the road.

Mrs Mortimer did not see this couple.

Well, we don't know how much time had floated between her hearing the footsteps of the PC and her going out. The couple could of course had vanished before she came out.
Mortimer's timing must have been out to some degree because she didn't see anyone expect Leon Goldstein and she most certainly couldn't have been outside as long as she said she was (because if she did she would have seen Stride's killer - or even Stride herself - on Berner Street at some point).

All the best

[Jon Guy]

I just love it when I'm in total agreement with the grey mostache 'CHIEF'

Its Mrs Mortimers timing that is OUT.

Placing the Schwartz evidence much closer to the estimated time of death. Yes thank you Glenn, i would kiss you (but your a boy)

Of course Dan Norder will try and claim that this is a conspiracy and people are out to get 'him' but he is wrong...it is not a conspiracy

Hello

The problem with Mortimer`s timing being out is that when PC Smith walked down Berner St on Mortimer`s side of the street he saw Stride standing talking to a man on the opposite side of the road.

Mrs Mortimer did not see this couple.

[Jeff Leahy]

No Dan..I have only just started..my mission is clear...unfortuneately..RJ Palmer got there first on another thread..

But your weaseled words and miss-understanding of serious elliments of the Jack The Ripper case go on..

i will dismantle you..post by post

Sleep soundly tonight...

[Dan Norder]

I guess you've given up even pretending that your posts make any sense at all.

[Jeff Leahy]

Seriously, Jeff, how does that statement even make sense in your jumbled little brain? I haven't even posted in this thread, and you have no idea about what my opinions on any of these topics being discussed here are.

Is the problem here that you somehow confused yourself into thinking that Glenn's beliefs on this topic has any bearing on your claims in another thread that Anderson's Jewish witness was Schwartz and that that's what most people in this field think too? If that's what you are getting at, desperation to try to find anything you can to support yourself apparently has you grasping at straws again.

[Dan Norder]

Of course Dan Norder will try and claim that this is a conspiracy and people are out to get 'him' but he is wrong...it is not a conspiracy

Seriously, Jeff, how does that statement even make sense in your jumbled little brain? I haven't even posted in this thread, and you have no idea about what my opinions on any of these topics being discussed here are.

Is the problem here that you somehow confused yourself into thinking that Glenn's beliefs on this topic has any bearing on your claims in another thread that Anderson's Jewish witness was Schwartz and that that's what most people in this field think too? If that's what you are getting at, desperation to try to find anything you can to support yourself apparently has you grasping at straws again.

[Jeff Leahy]

We don't know who Mrs Mortimer heard but my view is that she DID hear PC Smith, although she overestimated and exaggerated the amount of minutes between she heard those steps and when she went outside.

I just love it when I'm in total agreement with the grey mostache 'CHIEF'

Its Mrs Mortimers timing that is OUT.

Placing the Schwartz evidence much closer to the estimated time of death. Yes thank you Glenn, i would kiss you (but your a boy)

Of course Dan Norder will try and claim that this is a conspiracy and people are out to get 'him' but he is wrong...it is not a conspiracy

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

If PC Smith walked down Berner St at 12.35, who did Mrs Mortimer hear walk past her door shortly before 12.45 am ? The only people we are aware of who walked down that side of Berner St at that time were BS Man and Schwartz.

We don't know who Mrs Mortimer heard but my view is that she DID hear PC Smith, although she overestimated and exaggerated the amount of minutes between she heard those steps and when she went outside.
Since Goldman stated that he passed Berner Street shortly before 1 am, it is reasonable to assume that she most likely went outside around 1.45 or shortly after. But even so, it would make the time schedule for the Schwartz incident and then a few minutes later for the killing of Stride to occur quite tight, regardless of allowing an error of a few minutes in either direction.

The couple seen by Brown were against the Board school, but around the corner from Berner St, in Fairclough St, out of view of Berner St.

Brown was walking alongside Fairclough Street and most likely passed the crossing, with Berner Street being in his view. Please keep in mind that, although Brown doesn't appear to have been very observant, the Schwartz incident ocurred rather close to the intersection with Fairclough Street, not far up the street. No doubt Brown would have noticed it if it happened and if his timing was right.

As an aside,was Brown "Pipeman" ?
He came out of a shop on Berner St at 12.45 and crossed the road, as Schwartz described ? Just a thought.

Listen, Jon,

James Brown said that he had left his home in order to buy groceries at the chandler's shop at the corner of Berner Street-Fairclough Street at 12:45 but when he returned back home three or four minutes later (which would place us at about 12:49 or 12:50 cnsidering his timing is correct) he saw the couple by the Board School.
He didn't see anyone else at this point, and it wasn't intil 15 minutes later that he heard screams and commotion.

James Brown was on his way home from a chandler's shop, and Pipeman most certainly didn't come out from any such thing. The idea that he came out from the pub on the corner is deriving from the dramatized Star article, not from the more credible statement he delivered to the police (where Pipeman is already standing by the house wall).
To assume that Brown and Pipeman might have been the same man is a very strange interpretation - no doubt Brown was on the move alongside Fairclough Street and not standing by a house wall and later running after Schwartz.

All the best

[Jon Guy]

What do you all make of the newspaper account on the Prelude to a Scare thread that the police discredited Schwartz's story?
c.d.

I was unaware of it until I saw Simon`s post but I do that up until around the 7th Nov, both Anderson and Warren were still discussing the use of the word Lipski towards Schwartz.