An even closer look at Black Bag Man

[New Waterloo]

Possibly the man that Mortimer sees is Schwartz. It is possible that Schwartz was carrying a bag. He makes no reference to this when making his report to the police why should he. I seem to recall he made his report before Goldstein makes his. Goldstein was carrying a bag and he believes he is the man seen by Mortimer so makes his report to clear his name. Thats a simple answer but still remarkable how they both walk through at about the same time. but feasible I suppose.

NW

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Hi Andrew,

The man referred to as "Baskert" in that article is the man we usually refer to as Albert Bachert. There's good reason to doubt his credibility. I think what most likely happened is that he said this because he was aware of Fanny's account of a man with a black bag.

Hi Lewis.

If a woman saw a man with a black bag walking north at around the time of the murder, and that man not Leon Goldstein, who might it have been?

If you click on the >> link in the ChrisGeorge quote in my post (#30), it will take you to the corresponding thread. Check out the youtube video link posted by Nelson.

[Lewis C]

From the Echo, Oct 2:

"MAN WITH A BLACK SHINY BAG."

The young man Albert Baskert, of [13], Newnham-street, Whitechapel, has made a further statement. It will be noticed that the man who spoke to him in the Three Nuns Hotel on Saturday night carried a black shiny bag, and it is remarkable that the only man Mrs. Mortimer observed in Berner-street, nearly two hours afterwards, also carried a black shiny bag. Baskert says: - "On Saturday night, about seven minutes to twelve, I entered the Three Nuns Hotel, Aldgate. While in there an elderly woman, very shabbily dressed, came in and asked me to buy some matches. I refused, and she went out. A man who had been standing by me remarked that these persons were a nuisance, to which I responded 'Yes.' He then asked me to have a glass with him, but I refused, as I had just called for one myself. He then asked me if I knew how old some of the women who were in the habit of soliciting outside. I replied that I thought some who looked about 25 were over 35, the reason they looked younger being on account of the powder and paint. He asked if I could tell him where they usually went with men, and I replied that I had heard that some went to places in Oxford-street, Whitechapel, others to some houses in Whitechapel-road, and others to Bishopsgate-street. He then asked whether I thought they would go with him down Northumberland-alley, a dark, lonely court in Fenchurch-street. I said I did not know, but supposed they would. He then went outside and spoke to the woman who was selling the matches, and gave her something, I believe. He returned to me, and I bade him "Good night" at about ten minutes past twelve. I believe the woman was waiting for him. I do not think I could identify the woman, as I did not take particular notice of her, but I should know the man again. He was a dark man, about 38 years of age, height about 5ft. 6in. or 7in. He wore a black felt hat, dark clothes (morning coat), and black tie, and carried a black, shiny bag.

Hi Andrew,

The man referred to as "Baskert" in that article is the man we usually refer to as Albert Bachert. There's good reason to doubt his credibility. I think what most likely happened is that he said this because he was aware of Fanny's account of a man with a black bag.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Albert Bachert is certainly as "a person of interest." It has always seemed suspicious to me that he inserted himself into the case at so many different points, and as we know that's something that serial killers do. He certainly had a big view of himself and could be classed at the least as something of a trouble maker. This is what makes his sudden disappearance curious because, much like Roslyn D'Onston, he was a self-advertiser who was often in the news.

From the Echo, Oct 2:

"MAN WITH A BLACK SHINY BAG."

The young man Albert Baskert, of [13], Newnham-street, Whitechapel, has made a further statement. It will be noticed that the man who spoke to him in the Three Nuns Hotel on Saturday night carried a black shiny bag, and it is remarkable that the only man Mrs. Mortimer observed in Berner-street, nearly two hours afterwards, also carried a black shiny bag. Baskert says: - "On Saturday night, about seven minutes to twelve, I entered the Three Nuns Hotel, Aldgate. While in there an elderly woman, very shabbily dressed, came in and asked me to buy some matches. I refused, and she went out. A man who had been standing by me remarked that these persons were a nuisance, to which I responded 'Yes.' He then asked me to have a glass with him, but I refused, as I had just called for one myself. He then asked me if I knew how old some of the women who were in the habit of soliciting outside. I replied that I thought some who looked about 25 were over 35, the reason they looked younger being on account of the powder and paint. He asked if I could tell him where they usually went with men, and I replied that I had heard that some went to places in Oxford-street, Whitechapel, others to some houses in Whitechapel-road, and others to Bishopsgate-street. He then asked whether I thought they would go with him down Northumberland-alley, a dark, lonely court in Fenchurch-street. I said I did not know, but supposed they would. He then went outside and spoke to the woman who was selling the matches, and gave her something, I believe. He returned to me, and I bade him "Good night" at about ten minutes past twelve. I believe the woman was waiting for him. I do not think I could identify the woman, as I did not take particular notice of her, but I should know the man again. He was a dark man, about 38 years of age, height about 5ft. 6in. or 7in. He wore a black felt hat, dark clothes (morning coat), and black tie, and carried a black, shiny bag.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Leon Goldstein is an interesting character and I have noticed there are some strange coincidences (I am sure they have been noticed before) Goldstein is said to live at 22 Christian Street. I believe Schwartz lived at 22 Ellen Street. In fact I think the number 22 comes up on another street in the area. Goldstein follows the same route (either before or after) taken by Schwarz.

Might that same route and strange coincidences suggest that we are dealing with one man, not two?

According to C-I Swanson's report to the Home Office:

12.45 a.m. 30th. Israel Schwartz of 22 Helen [sic - Ellen] Street, Backchurch Lane, stated that at this hour, on turning into Berner St. from Commercial Road...

We don't know if that was the address Schwartz moved to or from, or even if the moving took place. As Swanson says nothing of any move, we should probably suppose that was Schwartz's address when he went to the police (apparently on the evening of the day of the murder).

The famous graffiti and apron are found in Goulston Street. I think there are a couple of reports where the address is stated at Goldstein Street.

If the writer (which has been suggested) has poor writing skills or language difficulties does he think the street is called Goldstein. Is he telling is something.

Are these somehow clues.

Example. It's just a coincidence, albeit a slightly amusing one.

Am I mistaken (I cant find the report) that the press found Schwarz a few days later in Spectacle alley (I think I might be wrong on that one)

Again something not right here

NW

Goldstein claimed to have come from a cafe in Spectacle alley, just prior to being seen in Berner St. A journalist from the Star newspaper claimed to have "ran him to earth in Backchurch-lane" - him being "the Hungarian" Schwartz.