Spooner revisited, with some Lamb on the side.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Thank you NotBlamed for pointing me towards the 'Whistling on Berner Street' very interesting but wow a lot to read.

I think I drafted the initial post and forgot to edit it.

I'm going to suggest something more radical.

Louis Diemschitz could settle the matter? Echo, Oct 1:

I got a candle, and at once went into the yard, where I saw a quantity of blood near the body. I did not touch the body. I went for a policeman, but could not find one. When looking for the police, I told a young man of the affair, and he came with me back to the yard.

The important thing here seems to be the date of the press report. No chance of Diemschutz being influenced by later reports and it seems accepted by all that he was first to discover the body. So he leaves the yard and within a short period finds a young man. He doesn't mention any girlfriend with the young man. Where has she gone at this stage. Is Spooner the killer of Stride. Great alibi to be at the scene in plain site. Maybe just a mad idea.

NW

Have you had a read of Edward spooner - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums?

[New Waterloo]

Trouble sleeping so middle of night now so forgive any sill errors in my post. I do think that sometimes we are all putting the cart before the horse. Looking at the murders and then trying to fit a theory in. Nothing wrong with that as we havn't got much choice. Or have we? There is a sort of resignation that the JTR murders will never be solved as there is a lack of clear evidence. But it is true to say that because of the sheer determination of you the researchers there is now a massive amount of information and evidence of what happened back in 1888.

Is the answer in plain sight. Are we missing the obvious. I think that perhaps we are. I have posted here and use the example of Spooner. What evidence would link him to the Stride killing?

• I think evidence is weak that he was with a young lady when alerted of the murder. Maybe earlier on his own admission. Not sure if there is any evidence by others.
• There is strong evidence (by his own admission) that he gives a different time to everybody else. Why?
• He is known in the area and for a period of time lived near Packer, a witness who states that he believes the offender was local to the area. Packer is a poor witness. Why? Many witnesses fear reprisals but can be later encouraged by others to say something.
• A few months after the Stride murder he is involved in a robbery (involving goods and a horse and cart stolen in Christian Street). Although a local lad he seems to have no fear of committing a crime so close to where he once lived.
• During the later robbery he grabs a person by the hair and pulls them backwards. A similar if not same action as the murderer of Stride. (same MO)
• The Stride murder occurs at the same time (I know the time experts will jump in here) as a horse and cart containing goods arrives at the scene
• For a relatively young person Spooner takes particular interest in examining Stride (Is he checking to see if she is dead)
• There doesn't appear to be much evidence as to what happened in that yard or street. We are filling in too much ourselves perhaps. Is it that something else happened. Is it a failed robbery, disagreement for whatever reason, domestic violence, racist incident.
• Where are the missing people, Pipe Man, BSM, others? We need to ask ourselves why people don't want to become involved. Criminals don't like to hang around (fact)
• Does Stride interrupt an attempted robbery. Were robberies of goods from carts common?

So in this example I am not going so far as to suggest that Spooner is the murderer of Stride and there are many other theories of what happened but I have tried to show how we can use the evidence we have to perhaps give us some direction, then when we have done everything we can to get all the evidence together we can try very carefully to put a story together and see if it holds water

A final thought. If Spooner had been convicted previously of the robbery of a horse, cart and goods from a Jewish trader where violence was used by Spooner previous to the Dutfield Yard incident/murder (in other words the other way round) would we be looking at this differently.

Anyway and so to bed. Thanks all

NW