The Stride Murder

[GBinOz]

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If Schwartz is to be believed, then he witnessed the moments before her murder and it's unlikely that Stride was a ripper victim. There's no way that the real ripper would have thrown her down with both Pipeman and Schwartz looking on...and the random Sweetheart couple etc...

The ripper would have led her there, convinced her to go in the alleyway with him (perhaps to go into the club through the side door to have a drink together) and then as she prepared to take out a Cachous, he cut her throat through her windpipe leaving her unable to make a sound... and left the scene...all in under 30 seconds.

RD

Hi RD,

I absolutely agree with your first paragraph, and your second paragraph except that it was not BSMan in the leading role and as such, that man may have been the ripper.

Cheers, George

[Wickerman]

Hi New Waterloo,

If Schartz is to be believed, there was an incident that could be described as an attack, with Stride being thrown to the ground, or perhaps as a domestic dispute where perhaps BSMan released his grip on Stride and she fell to the ground. Either way, this seems to me to be the occasion where she acquired the mud on her dress and face. Lamb testified that her clothing was not dishevelled, and it appeared that she had been lowered to the ground. I would suggest that after the initial incident she arose and was persuaded, by someone, to proceed towards the clubhouse, and was then seized and murdered. Two separate incidents. The blood flowed towards the street, as would have any mud after the rain.

Cheers, George

Hi George.

Do you think BS-man walked her back into the shadows to kill her, or did he leave, and there was someone else back there who did the same?

[The Rookie Detective]

Respectfully...


What we have witnessed over the past couple of pages, is what we tend to endure on other threads, when we feel we are getting somewhere but are encouraged to pursue areas of the case for fear of stepping on other's toes.

It's like children at a party who are determined to spoil the party for everyone else because they've realized it's not just their party and the focus is away from them.


PLEASE STOP with the political discussion; it has NOTHING to do with the case and is only being perpetuated by a few who are throwing their toys out of the pram because some of us are making ground and raising points that warrant further discussion and analysis.

Distraction techniques are not only ridiculous; they're blatantly unfair and disrespectful to those of us who want to discuss the case.


I can understand how there are those who don't want to ask questions that go against the grain; or dismiss those who have the objectiveness and vision to create new hypotheses that could highlight something new and unprecedented.

It's often a psychological ploy to distract from the point of the thread, so as to saturate the thread with content that is completely irrelevant to the case.

I find it astonishing and unbelievable how such brilliant minds and incredibly learned and intelligent people can behave in a way that dilutes the important content, so as to try and deter those of us who want to discuss ONLY the case from pursuing the thread further.

Trying to kill the thread by adding unrelated comments is simply not fair.

It's happened on the Richardson thread, it's happened on every Lechmere thread, it's happening now on this thread...


With the utmost respect...PLEASE refrain from submitting comments that are totally and utterly unrelated to the case.


Let's focus on why we are all here.


P.s.
If Schwartz is to be believed, then he witnessed the moments before her murder and it's unlikely that Stride was a ripper victim. There's no way that the real ripper would have thrown her down with both Pipeman and Schwartz looking on...and the random Sweetheart couple etc...

The ripper would have led her there, convinced her to go in the alleyway with him (perhaps to go into the club through the side door to have a drink together) and then as she prepared to take out a Cachous, he cut her throat through her windpipe leaving her unable to make a sound... and left the scene...all in under 30 seconds.


RD

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,

From the Inquest: Brown:

When I heard screams I opened my window, but could not see anybody. The cries were of moving people going in the direction of Grove-street. Shortly afterwards I saw a policeman standing at the corner of Christian- street, and a man called him to Berner-street.

Who was the man that called Collins to Berner St? It can't have been Diemshitz as he was by then at the yard. It can't have been Koze as he was by then with Eagle on Commercial Rd. IMO it was Jacobs.

Koze (AKA Issacs) left the yard first, headed for Fairclough, but turned up Batty towards the Commercial Rd where he found Eagle, and then Lamb. Eagle left next headed for Commercial Road. Diemshitz and Jacobs left shortly after, and were the two "jews" seen running down Fairclough towards Grove. On their return they encounter Spooner, and Diemshitz returns with him leaving Jacobs to continue the search in that area, and Jacobs finds Collins. This hypothesis does not rely on misprint or mistaken identity, which I don't find tenable. While I appreciate your point of view, I must in this case respectfully disagree.

Cheers, George

Jacobs doesn't exist
lol

You only need to go back to that one question from the coroner, there was only one reply by Eagle.
He can't say "Jacobs" to the Times reporter, but say "Diemshutz" to every other reporter in the room.
Of course it's a misprint.


George, if you truly want to believe in Jacobs, you must demonstrate exactly how that exchange between the coroner & Eagle happend, for one reporter to hear Jacobs, yet all the rest heard Diemshutz?
Please...explain this.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think that we should get real. People don’t just randomly place themselves at the scene of a murder where their actions can’t be confirmed or rejected by anyone else. How could Schwartz have known that a Mrs Nosey wasn’t looking out of her window with the gates in view who could come forward and say that the incident never happened? Or even that some busybody didn’t read The Star and come forward to say that they knew Schwartz and that he was elsewhere at the time? It makes zero sense so, in the absence of proof, we have to consider more sensible, believable explanations.

1. That the incident was of a very short duration and didn’t involve any great noise and so for a period of a minute or so there was no one else in the street apart from Schwartz, BS man Pipeman and Stride.

2. That Schwartz was mistaken in his time and the incident occurred before Smith passed at 12.30/12.35. Yes, this would mean that BS man wasn’t the killer but having a bigger gap of time between a 12.45 incident and the body being found at 1.00 makes the suggestion less unlikely imo.

3. That Schwartz saw the incident elsewhere (Wick’s suggestion) in a different gateway. As Wick pointed out, it was dark after all. I’ll throw in another possibility - how do we know that Schwartz hadn’t had a few beers? No one spoke to him at the time to make a judgment on his sobriety but it was late at night after all so it’s can’t be impossible, or even unlikely, that he’d been drinking and he’d have sobered up by the time that he went to the police station. It’s just a suggestion but not a far-fetched one imo.

I’ll add my hypothetical scenario to the mix again:

Stride is out with a man and she doesn’t want him to know about her other life (as a prostitute) They move to the gateway either because her man wanted to use the club’s outside toilet or he has to go and speak to someone inside the club (for whatever reason) While he’s inside BS man shows up drunk; he’s a former client. He tries to get Liz to go with him but a scuffle ensues. Liz doesn’t call out loudly because, a) she knows that the guy isn’t dangerous (just an annoying drunk) and b) she doesn’t want to draw attention to her past connection to this man. She just wants him to leave her alone and go before her man returns.

Stride’s man exits the toilet/club, sees the struggle and calls out to BS man in the gateway. As he’s coming from the club BS man assumes that he’s a member and therefore Jewish so he calls him Lipski. Schwartz who is across the street and slightly passed the gates doesn’t see this other man and naturally assumes that the ‘Lipski’ is directed at him. He just wants to get out of there so he doesn’t look back and never sees Stride’s man. Pipeman scarpers to as he doesn’t want to get involved either.

BS man decides to give up, not fancying a beating from Stride’s man, but before he goes he says something that leaves Stride’s man with no doubt that she is, or has been, a prostitute. They stand in the passage and Stride comes clean. The guy has a temper and is furious. He grabs her and cuts her throat and leaves.

[FISHY1118]

If I call a certain politician stupid you think that, for balance, I should mention examples of stupidity in other presidents? And if I mentioned the examples you quoted would someone else pop up and say “hold on, that’s no fair, why haven’t you quoted that thing that Hoover said, and that thing that Ford said?”

I made a passing comment about Trump’s stupidity. It wasn’t a ‘political discussion’ or an attempt to begin one and yet you felt the need to leap to his defence. You’re the one keeping this going Fishy. Not me.

Ok Whatever ,i just thought if the discussion was to continue it shouldnt be on the Stride thread thats all .

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ok, i have say there a bit of confusion here, and sorry but i wasnt calling you a vegetable at all ,i was referencing biden ,that was my intention as per the dicussion .

Again sorry if you thought i meant you .

Ok. Let’s drop the Trump stuff.

[Herlock Sholmes]

No problem George ,i can easily see why certain positions are taken as far as the subject matter goes, i dont have a problem with that .

What strikes me as astonishing is the lack of any comment regarding noticable, obvious, problematic descriptions of a certain other politican . But hey time will tell all ,im sure of that .

If I call a certain politician stupid you think that, for balance, I should mention examples of stupidity in other presidents? And if I mentioned the examples you quoted would someone else pop up and say “hold on, that’s no fair, why haven’t you quoted that thing that Hoover said, and that thing that Ford said?”

I made a passing comment about Trump’s stupidity. It wasn’t a ‘political discussion’ or an attempt to begin one and yet you felt the need to leap to his defence. You’re the one keeping this going Fishy. Not me.

[Elamarna]

As Abberline seems to have second-guessed Schwartz on who 'Lipski' was called to, perhaps we should be asking a similar question of him?

From the very start, people have found it necessary to modify Schwartz's story to make sense of it. An obvious red flag.

We disagree, you have decided it's fake, because for you it doesn't feel right to you.
I see every type of reason given to reject it; none of which to me appear to be solid to me.
You clearly disagree

So we will have to agree to disagree.


Steve

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

Isn't that an oxymoron? Kindly note this as a day when we are both in full agreement.

Sorry Fishy.

Cheers, George

Agreed George. Although Trump would probably think that is was a type of stupid cow.

[FISHY1118]

It’s very gratifying in a way to see clear examples like this post of what I’ve said numerous times. Some people complain about my occasional tendency toward sarcasm or mockery as if it’s somehow nasty. And yet they themselves feel it ok to slip in real personal insults as if they’re exempt.

Calling me ‘a vegetable’ is hardly ‘nice’ is it? And from someone as blameless as you.

Ok, i have say there a bit of confusion here, and sorry but i wasnt calling you a vegetable at all ,i was referencing biden ,that was my intention as per the dicussion .

Again sorry if you thought i meant you .

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ok seeing how you ignored my request not to discuss politics when I ask ( politely I might add ) so be it .

One doesn't need to be Einstein to see who the vegetable really is.

It’s very gratifying in a way to see clear examples like this post of what I’ve said numerous times. Some people complain about my occasional tendency toward sarcasm or mockery as if it’s somehow nasty. And yet they themselves feel it ok to slip in real personal insults as if they’re exempt.

Calling me ‘a vegetable’ is hardly ‘nice’ is it? And from someone as blameless as you.

And btw, calling Trump a vegetable in a passing comment isn’t anymore ‘discussing politics’ than me calling the alleged Berner Street plotters The Keystone Cops would be a discussion of silent film comedy.

[FISHY1118]

55
of 91 Dan Quayle on Latin America



''I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people.''

—Dan Quayle




27
of 91


Donald Rumsfled on the Unknown



''We know there are known knowns: there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns: that is to say we know there are things we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.''

—Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Defense Department briefing, Feb. 12, 2002




07
of 91


Barack Obama on Visiting 57 States


''I've now been in 57 states — I think one left to go.''

—Barack Obama, at a campaign event in Beaverton, Oregon, May 9, 2008



I love these 3


Fascinating list , ok thats enough from me .

[FISHY1118]

Time usually reveals all Fishy. But I haven't heard any other President claim that George Washington first took the airfields, or that stealth fighters were invisible, or that the drinking of disinfectant may be the solution for the Covid virus, amongst other little gems of wisdom.

Cheers, George

Fair point George . As im sure youd also get a laugh at the ''Dumbest Political Quotes of all Time '' [ Google it just for kicks] im not so sure the above are much different when stacked up against these gems. People say the strangest things .

But i suggested in an earlier post, perhaps best that any further discussion be directed to the Pub Talk section . Which i hope to comment on the subject in the new year

[GBinOz]

No problem George ,i can easily see why certain positions are taken as far as the subject matter goes, i dont have a problem with that .

What strikes me as astonishing is the lack of any comment regarding noticable, obvious, problematic descriptions of a certain other politican . But hey time will tell all ,im sure of that .

Time usually reveals all Fishy. But I haven't heard any other President claim that George Washington first took the airfields, or that stealth fighters were invisible, or that the drinking of disinfectant may be the solution for the Covid virus, amongst other little gems of wisdom.

Cheers, George