Who was the best witness to have seen Jack the Ripper?

[pinkmoon]

I agree that the Ripper did not possess superhuman powers, but I also believe he was quite careful and prepared. A person might get away with one murder based on luck, but not multiple. I think it's possible he had an accomplice. So did the police of 1888. This would increase his chances of success dramatically. However, there's not a shred of irrefutable evidence in any of the murders of an accomplice, not even Emma Smiths'. However, there are multiple suggestions of that possibility. The idea of two or more people being involved together is poo-pooed these days because of the opinions of professional profilers (none of whom have actually caught any serial killers, by the way) who gathered their evidence solely from those perps who HAD been caught. But this overlooks the fact that in the Victorian age, criminal conspiracies (i.e. crooks working together towards a common end) were the rule rather than the exception. So that remains an overlooked possibility.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Would explain a lot also was not a reward offerd after Kelly's murder granting immunity from prosecution for any accomplice that will keep our conspiracy theorist happy.

[Bridewell]

If Stride was a Ripper murder - Israel Schwartz.

[Bridewell]

I really want to believe in the Smith sighting. I do. It would be extremely convenient for those of us who believe that Stride was a Ripper victim. But it's a tad early and it makes no sense why the killer would be carrying a parcel.

Even though the man seen by Hutchinson was also described as carrying one?

[Fisherman]

I agree that the Ripper did not possess superhuman powers, but I also believe he was quite careful and prepared. A person might get away with one murder based on luck, but not multiple. I think it's possible he had an accomplice. So did the police of 1888. This would increase his chances of success dramatically. However, there's not a shred of irrefutable evidence in any of the murders of an accomplice, not even Emma Smiths'. However, there are multiple suggestions of that possibility. The idea of two or more people being involved together is poo-pooed these days because of the opinions of professional profilers (none of whom have actually caught any serial killers, by the way) who gathered their evidence solely from those perps who HAD been caught. But this overlooks the fact that in the Victorian age, criminal conspiracies (i.e. crooks working together towards a common end) were the rule rather than the exception. So that remains an overlooked possibility.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Is that two people ripping away or one keeping watch?

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

I agree that the Ripper did not possess superhuman powers, but I also believe he was quite careful and prepared. A person might get away with one murder based on luck, but not multiple. I think it's possible he had an accomplice. So did the police of 1888. This would increase his chances of success dramatically. However, there's not a shred of irrefutable evidence in any of the murders of an accomplice, not even Emma Smiths'. However, there are multiple suggestions of that possibility. The idea of two or more people being involved together is poo-pooed these days because of the opinions of professional profilers (none of whom have actually caught any serial killers, by the way) who gathered their evidence solely from those perps who HAD been caught. But this overlooks the fact that in the Victorian age, criminal conspiracies (i.e. crooks working together towards a common end) were the rule rather than the exception. So that remains an overlooked possibility.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[pinkmoon]

Hi Pink. You're in good company with your opinion as Inspector Reid and his H Division men felt there were people around George Street who knew more than they were telling about the Tabram murder:

‘ It is said that the police are of opinion that more than one person belonging to the miserable class of "Pearly Poll," could give very important information, but so great is the terror inspired by the scoundrels of the locality, it would most probably cost them their lives were they to "split."’

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,over the years our killer has almost taken on superhuman powers to explain why he wasn't seen.The most logical explanation was that he was seen but it was never reported not to far fetched when you consider the area.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Tom,thanks for agreeing with me I have been saying this for years and people have rubbished me about it.It is quite possible that our killer was seen or even possible disturbed by some one who didn't come forward.I might stick my neck out a bit more could the "private information " have come from somebody who saw druitt in the east end and obviously could not come forward in a conventional way.I'm not saying that they saw druitt attacking anyone but maybe they could have sited him in the east end in an unsavoury area or venue

Hi Pink. You're in good company with your opinion as Inspector Reid and his H Division men felt there were people around George Street who knew more than they were telling about the Tabram murder:

‘ It is said that the police are of opinion that more than one person belonging to the miserable class of "Pearly Poll," could give very important information, but so great is the terror inspired by the scoundrels of the locality, it would most probably cost them their lives were they to "split."’

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Wick. I've had copies for many years. But it was Lynn Cates who spent the time and money to have them translated from Yiddish into English, the results of which he published in Ripperologist magazine.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Ben]

How do you define ' Best ' Wickerman?.

The Bricklayers Arms witness who wasn't Gardner.

Hi Tom,

Yes, long time no see. I'd heard some bad news that you weren't well, but I trust that's all behind you now.

Lawende represents the best of the bunch on two levels; the first being the high esteem in which his evidence was apparently regarded by the police. Quite aside from any Andersonian allegiances (which I personally don't have), there is strong evidence that he was the only witness used in identity attempts with post-1888 suspects, such as Kosminski and Grainger. The other reason being the timing and location of the sighting in relation to the discovery of Eddowes's body. Whilst it may be possible that the couple were not Eddowes and her killer, it certainly isn't probable. Lawende's words are often misinterpreted, but he believed the clothing worn by the woman was the same as the items he was shown at the morgue, i.e. not just similar, as often stated.

As for Schwartz, it can be fairly safely concluded, in my opinion, that if Schwartz gave a truthful account, and if Stride was a ripper victim, the broad-shouldered man was Jack the Ripper. 15 minutes isn't very long at all, although I don't believe as much time as that elapsed between the assault (or physical manhandling, at the very least) and the likely time of death. I'm very much on the fence when it comes to most Stride-related issue, with the exception of this one. When people argue that there must have been another attacker who came long after the first one, I'm always astounded by what I consider an odd resistance to the most obvious and probable explanation, which is that the person seen attacking her at around the time she died was also her killer.

All the best,
Ben

[jason_c]

Lawende or Long. Both sightings are relatively sparse in their descriptions. This adds to their veracity in my opinion.

[Scorpio]

How do you define ' Best ' Wickerman?.
Is it a question of reliability ?.
How many witnesses had their statements verified by another?.
How much time elapsed between sighting and their statement being given?.
Is it a question of validity?.
Are they certain it was the victim?.
How much time elapsed between the sighting and time of death?.
If i was Detective assigned to one of the killing's, i would ask myself these questions and more.
Answer: I would be wary of staking my case on any of them.

[Wickerman]

... I believe what Smith took the parcel to be was a box wrapped in newspaper. That's why I suggest a stack of newspapers wrapped in string and held under the arm at that time of night would appear more like a parcel. After all, the Der Arbeter Fraint would not have appeared like a standard newspaper hawked around the streets by newsboys and immediately identifiable. They would have been hot off the press and unfolded.

I recall you mentioning this before, did you ever obtain a copy of this paper, Der Arbeter Fraint?, I thought someone had.
I wondered what its dimensions actually were.

[pinkmoon]

Hi Ben, I haven't seen you in forever.

If we were to fairly evaluate the witnesses based on contemporary evidence, Lawende would fall towards the bottom of the list. But since people vote based on the books they read, and the books they read are largely Anderson-biased and say Lawende was a great witness (even though he could identify neither man nor woman), they vote that-a-way. But I still don't think Schwartz - misinformed opinions aside-would top the list by virtue of the fact that what he saw may have occurred a full quarter hour prior to her murder. That's a rather long time. I haven't voted on this poll because I don't have an opinion on the matter as of yet, but none of the witnesses listed are good witnesses as far as having seen the potential killer. The ones who are most likely to have seen him didn't get a good look.

I have to say I agree with Pink that the best witnesses are ones we don't know about.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,thanks for agreeing with me I have been saying this for years and people have rubbished me about it.It is quite possible that our killer was seen or even possible disturbed by some one who didn't come forward.I might stick my neck out a bit more could the "private information " have come from somebody who saw druitt in the east end and obviously could not come forward in a conventional way.I'm not saying that they saw druitt attacking anyone but maybe they could have sited him in the east end in an unsavoury area or venue

[harry]

Seeing is believing

I am of the opinion that Brown saw Stride with her killer.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Ben, I haven't seen you in forever.

If we were to fairly evaluate the witnesses based on contemporary evidence, Lawende would fall towards the bottom of the list. But since people vote based on the books they read, and the books they read are largely Anderson-biased and say Lawende was a great witness (even though he could identify neither man nor woman), they vote that-a-way. But I still don't think Schwartz - misinformed opinions aside-would top the list by virtue of the fact that what he saw may have occurred a full quarter hour prior to her murder. That's a rather long time. I haven't voted on this poll because I don't have an opinion on the matter as of yet, but none of the witnesses listed are good witnesses as far as having seen the potential killer. The ones who are most likely to have seen him didn't get a good look.

I have to say I agree with Pink that the best witnesses are ones we don't know about.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott