Prater/Lewis/Hutchinson/Cox

[Ben]

So yes, you can bet on it....

All my worldly goods, Marlowe.

But, even if they were, the point is still a very important one: that a woman saw Mary Kelly with a man

I'm afraid you're just inventing things. Neither Lewis nor Kennedy ever mentioned seeing "Mary Kelly" on the night in question.

Now, this doesn't mean that Hutch was telling the truth, but it puts an end to the theory that he invented this man out of thin air

Of course it does. People don't generally invent things out of "thin air". Invented stories often incorporate real events to make their inventions appear plausible. Since Hutchinson came forward after Kennedy's account was published in the press, he could have "borrowed" any detail from her description to lend superficial credence to his own.

[DVV]

Neither Lewis nor Kennedy are supposed to have seen Kelly. According to her first statement, 9 Nov, Lewis "did not know the deceased." And Mrs Kennedy said she saw "2 women" near to the Britania. None of these is said to be Mary Kelly.
These 2 women (in Kennedy's account), and the "female" (in Lewis') are of little relevance. The important person on the scene is the man, who, according to both witnesses, looks like the "Wednesday suspect".
There can be no doubt that one of the witnesses "Chinese whispered" the other, or that Kennedy and Lewis were in fact one and the same person.
The main difference between Lewis and Kennedy is Wideawake Hat, who appears only in the former's testimony.

Amitiés,
David

[Marlowe]

Totally wrong. Damn you people are not too good at this stuff....

[DVV]

Totally wrong. Damn you people are not too good at this stuff....

I'm amazed that you maintain your position without producing any evidence.
It would be so easy to quote an article or any other document.
Which document says that Lewis and Kennedy have seen mary Kelly on 9 Nov?
Please, tell us.

[Marlowe]

As I pointed out several months ago, Lewis stayed with the Keylers and Kennedy stayed with her parents who lived near Mary Kelly. There are many press reports indicating that different sets of girls were approached in the days before the murder. You people seem to think that it should have been only one girl and if any other girl makes the same claim that means they're "chinese whispering". Brilliant.

Actually, the only "chinese whispering" seems to be occuring right here. You guys read a few books, do no independent research, show not one drop of creativity, and then post up like you know it all. "There's No Way..." You're some funny dudes... :-)

I said last night I'll post some stuff when I get the time...posting can be a black hole, as I'm sure you know.

[Ben]

Sorry about this, David.

As I pointed out several months ago, Lewis stayed with the Keylers and Kennedy stayed with her parents who lived near Mary Kelly.

No, Marlowe.

Just no.

Kennedy specified a residence "immediately opposite that in which the murder was committed". The only residences opposite Kelly's room were numbered 1 and 2, and were occupied by Julia Venturney and the "Keylers" respectively. Venturney apparently lived with a man named Harry Owen, and the Keylers were directly above. There were no other houses that met the "opposite "or "directly facing" criteria mentioned by Kennedy and Lewis.

Yes, many girls did provide the press with stories of suspicious men, but none mirrored eachother as closely as Lewis and "Kennedy" did, and to envisage them mirroring eachother's actions so closely on the night in question and going into different houses in Miller's Court (i.e. remaining complete seperate entities from eachother) only adds an extra dimension of total implausibility.

I said last night I'll post some stuff when I get the time

Ah yes, that'll be Mrs. Kennedy claiming to have seen "Kelly" with "the man described by Hutchinson".

I'm positively piddling myself in anticipation.

[DVV]

Funny guy.
Marlowe, if you really believe that both Lewis and Kennedy had the same experience with a suspicious man, on the same day, in the same area (Bethnal Green), and then, on the night of the murder, both again saw the same man (the Betn Green man!) at the corner of Dorset Street, and then again, both women went near to Kelly's house, dozed there, and at about the same time heard a scream of "Murder!", that simply means that you need rest.

[DVV]

[QUOTE=Ben;49614]Sorry about this, David.
QUOTE]

Don't! That's smooth.

[Marlowe]

Sorry David -- perhaps you have no inherent sense of probability. There's nothing 'highly unlikely' about it...

But, let's say they were the same...it doesn't change the main point: A woman, who knows Mary Kelly because her parents lived near her, saw Mary Kelly with a man that tried to lure her into a GATEWAY...

The description given by Kennedy has at least 12 points of agreement with Hutchinson's description...hence, they were both describing the same man...no matter who was lying! Pretty important info IMHO.

[DVV]

Sorry Marlowe, you have obviously no inherent sense of what is likely or unlikely. But it's not the only nonsense.
You say that both Lewis and Kennedy knew Mary Kelly. False. Kennedy says nothing about Kelly, and Sarah Lewis clearly said to the police that she "did not know" the deceased. The document did survive and there is nothing you can do.

[Ben]

A woman, who knows Mary Kelly because her parents lived near her, saw Mary Kelly with a man that tried to lure her into a GATEWAY...

Where are you getting this stuff from, Marlowe?

You've been asked several times to provide your evidence for this assertion, and I'd be grateful if you could do so now.

You say it doesn't matter if one of the parties was lying - how can it possibly not matter? Kennedy's account was published in the Morning Advertiser on 12th November, meaning it was available for the public to read well in advance of Hutchinson's appearance at the station; meaning that any chances of independent corroboration are totally nullified, since Hutchinson could have borrowed any detail he wanted from published accounts and incorporated them into his own.

[Marlowe]

It's not probability that's difficult for you -- it's apparently reading.

I have argued that Kennedy and Lewis were NOT the same. It was Kennedy who saw Kelly -- NOT Lewis -- is that simple enough?

[Ben]

It was Kennedy who saw Kelly -- NOT Lewis -- is that simple enough

Simple - yes.

It's also completely baseless.

[DVV]

Marlowe, you mean that Kennedy and Lewis described two distinct groups of persons at the corner of Dorset Street?
2 distinct groups seen at the same time, same spot, one by Kennedy, one by Lewis? In one group there is Kelly, in the other she is not. And in both groups there is a man who looks like the mysterious "Wednesday offender"....
You better not realized your nonsense.

[Marlowe]

It was Kennedy who said she saw Mary Kelly, not Lewis claiming to see Kelly. Understand?