Prater/Lewis/Hutchinson/Cox

[Ben]

Hi Cel,

On the negative side of Hutch equating to Blotchy, Blotchy's appearance doesn't match that of Hutchinson, as described by the press, which was that he had a military bearing or appearance.

I guess it depends what was meant by "military appearance". It has always conjured up images of a moustachioed, beefy, think-set individual for me, which wouldn't be at odds with Blotchy's reported particulars. Of perhaps greater interest is the similarity between the Blotchy and Wideawake suspects. Same headgear, and both "not tall, but stout".

Best wishes,
Ben

[Celesta]

Hi Cel,



I guess it depends what was meant by "military appearance". It has always conjured up images of a moustachioed, beefy, think-set individual for me, which wouldn't be at odds with Blotchy's reported particulars. Of perhaps greater interest is the similarity between the Blotchy and Wideawake suspects. Same headgear, and both "not tall, but stout".

Best wishes,
Ben

Hi Ben,

Thanks for saying this, Ben. I think that stocky doesn't have to imply fat or out of shape. I guess I'm still uncertain of what a late 19th century person would consider a general definition of "stocky." Stocky, to me, could also define a short, square person but not necessarily a chubby one. I had a history teacher who was also a football coach. He was short and square but quite solid. He was very powerful looking. So what did Cox see when she saw stocky?

[Shelley]

Hi Ben,

Thanks for saying this, Ben. I think that stocky doesn't have to imply fat or out of shape. I guess I'm still uncertain of what a late 19th century person would consider a general definition of "stocky." Stocky, to me, could also define a short, square person but not necessarily a chubby one. I had a history teacher who was also a football coach. He was short and square but quite solid. He was very powerful looking. So what did Cox see when she saw stocky?

Hi Celesta,
It could just mean not starving to death and thin ready to disappear into the big sky....Looking strong and healthy enough....Blimey not healthy by our standards today!

[Celesta]

Hi Shell,

Maybe so. Another definition of stout might be strong. Somewhere on here there's a discussion of this.

Best,

Cel

[Suzi]

Hi Cel
'Sing if you're proud to be stout' springs to mind !!

Hmmmm the fact that nobody saw Mr Blotchy (probably with an empty can- free of ale!) leave isn't surprising really- I'm sure that people were (as the phrase goes) 'Up and down like a pig at a fair' in Miller's Court and someone /anyone slipping out of that door- into the narrow passage- and into history wouldn't be that noticable I reckon!

Suz x

Don't mention the phrase 'Stout-hearted' whatever you do!!!!!xx

[Suzi]

Just checked 'stout' in Chambers - as you do :-'proud,arrogant,unyielding,stubborn,robust,thick,f at (A callow lie!) ,' and of course...dark porter!!! *Cheers*

Don't know why there's a gap in the fat!

[Celesta]

Hi Cel
'Sing if you're proud to be stout' springs to mind !!

Hmmmm the fact that nobody saw Mr Blotchy (probably with an empty can- free of ale!) leave isn't surprising really- I'm sure that people were (as the phrase goes) 'Up and down like a pig at a fair' in Miller's Court and someone /anyone slipping out of that door- into the narrow passage- and into history wouldn't be that noticable I reckon!

Suz x

Don't mention the phrase 'Stout-hearted' whatever you do!!!!!xx

Hi Suzi,

Very true. He might easily have slipped through. I keep thinking about how nasty the weather was that night--cold and rainy--and that it might have have kept the traffic down. What a creepy dismal place that court must have been in the best of conditions. Had to downright spooky on a rainy dark night.

Lots of definitions for stout, eh?

Bestest,

Cel

[Nemo]

Another related term to "stocky" would be "broad-shouldered"

I have speculated before that the man seen by Cox was not Hutchinson. In which case he could have been Blotchy or another.

Hutchinson's reason for stating he was there could be to inject himself into the investigation. I would not consider that wise for him, but other men confessed to being the Ripper so it would not be totally unbelievable/impossible.

I would venture though, that if it was the case that he said he was there when he wasn't, it would be because he knew the person who WAS there - possibly Blotchy. He may have been asked by Blotchy or whoever to give a false statement (he wasn't paid £5 for his trouble was he? - lol).

If it WAS Hutchinson who looked up the court as though he was waiting for somebody to come out, I think it strange he either did not notice Cox or at least he did not mention her in his statement.

[Celesta]

Nemo,

Unless Cox entered the street too early for Hutch to see her. What I don't understand is, if he was there when he says he was, how did he miss Lewis? She walked right past him. If he was staring so intently up the passage, he surely would have seen her enter the passage into Miller's Ct. She was in a state of agitation because of the weird guy she encountered on the street. I bet she paused right in front of the passage to look back and make sure the weird guy was still standing outside the pub and not about to follow her into the passage. Yet Hutch's statement doesn't mention her. In fact, it doesn't mention a lot of things.

[Ben]

Hi Nemo,

Do you mean Lewis, rather than Cox?

If it was Hutchinson, it's quite possible that he did mention Lewis, but the detail was not relevent to the possible identification of capture of a murder, and was therefore not included in the statement. We know he mentioned other details (that have survived only through Abberline's accompanying missive) that were also not included in the report, such as knowing Kelly for three years.

Best regards,
Ben

[Nemo]

Hi Ben - Lewis sorry ,yes.

The whole point of Hutchinson appearing after the inquest was supposedly because he was seen - and thought he better go voluntarily to the police to account for his presence etc etc so surely his statement went hand in hand with that of Lewis.

Also the police would surely have desired any corroboration for Lewis's statement.

To verify Hutchinson was the man seen, surely they would have asked him if he saw a woman entering the court? I would also have expected the police to ask Lewis to identify Hutchinson as the man seen.

Strange we seem to have no record in his statement or in other records that the police verified his/her statements in this way.

[Ben]

Hi Nemo,

To verify Hutchinson was the man seen, surely they would have asked him if he saw a woman entering the court? I would also have expected the police to ask Lewis to identify Hutchinson as the man seen.

All of that may well have happened.

I don't think the police were likely to have asked him the question about a woman entering the court when he first appeared to be interviewed at the station. The priority was to acquire his evidence and circulate the description. The tying up of loose ends would have occured later, when the police were in a position to compare in with other witness evidence etc.

[Nemo]

After the inquest statements, surely the man standing opposite the court was a major suspect.

At the time of the inquest I think it was believed possible that two men were acting together in the Ripper crimes - hence the offer of a pardon for the accomplice.

When Hutchinson appeared and stated that he was the man waiting, I would have thought he would have been regarded with suspicion by Abberline and others.

Perhaps that accounts for Hutchinson's "interrogation", duruing which he must have given satisfactory answers, after which he put his abbreviated statement on paper.

[Ben]

Hi Nemo,

There's no evidence that Lewis' loitering man had anything to do with the offer of a pardon for an accomplice. It isn't impossible that Hutchinson was considered a suspect once it transpired that his story didn't mesh up, but in the absence of anything concrete to rule him out as a suspect, they're only option was to keep him under surveillance in the event of other murders being committed over the ensuing months, and of course none were.

Best regards,
Ben

[Celesta]

I don't think the police were likely to have asked him the question about a woman entering the court when he first appeared to be interviewed at the station. The priority was to acquire his evidence and circulate the description. The tying up of loose ends would have occured later, when the police were in a position to compare in with other witness evidence etc.

This is probably true, Ben. Whatever transpired, it put the police off of Blotchy. As far as the accomplice offer, it's at least a coincidence. I can't quite work out how that would tie in with any scheme Hutch might have concocted for his own benefit.