Who Was Anderson’s Witness?

I still believe Schwartz saw the murder in progress, I'm going to get those reports from Kew of the interview, and I'm going to upload them here, so we can all see. And the reason he wasn't at inquest is because he was **** scared of the potential reprcussions of public attitude of him walking past a ripper murder. As I would have been.

They even publish your address at these inquests.

And I also think that Fanny Mortimer was exaggerating to get attention when she said she watched that gateway all evening.

[Michael W Richards]

I agree with you Michael. Mrs Mortimer was at the door, certainly when Goldstein passed . I just added the insert allowing for someone to argue otherwise if they thought Fanny was lying.
Regards Darryl

These days its more dangerous to agree with me than the opposite, so thanks for the bravery Darryl.

Thing about Mortimer is that we have a witness unaffiliated with the club, one that has known the club for some time and has formulated an opinion of those that frequent it...an opinion shared by the local police, and one that was at her door... by her own admission "almost" the whole half hour.... that is most relevant to this case. Louis, Morris and Wess all are paid by the club, as is Mrs D. Schwartz can be proven to be directly linked to this particular club later in the LVP, and is known to have Wess as an acquaintance.

Brown, Mortimer and Spooner...aside form the police...are the only truly independent witnesses, yet they are challenged far more than people who had a financial stake in keeping the club open. When one has bias, that muct be factored in. When stories have zero corroboration...they are suspect, not the foundations for some ridiculous speculating. Schwartz, Lave, Eagle, Mr and Mrs D have no secondary affirmation for anything they say. In just the one fact...Goldstein later admitting it was him passing when Fanny said he did, validates not only her eye witness value, but it also establishes her as credible. The young couple also validates Fannys statement. They saw no-one either.

Interesting that Fanny isnt at the Inquest although in essence the only relevant thing she did see was an empty street until Leon...so maybe not so surprising they didnt need her.....but Israel, if truthful, in all likelihood would have seen Liz with her most probable killer. So....why is he also left out? His story would be THE most valuable if true.

[Joshua Rogan]

I don’t recall that one being one of the ‘old established theories’ Joshua.

You need to think outside the box.....

[Herlock Sholmes]

Of course Fanny Mortimer told everyone that she saw nothing, it's clear she was the real killer. Her name practically screams "death to prostitutes". Hell, she even left her initials in Kelly's room.

I don’t recall that one being one of the ‘old established theories’ Joshua.

[Abby Normal]

Of course Fanny Mortimer told everyone that she saw nothing, it's clear she was the real killer. Her name practically screams "death to prostitutes". Hell, she even left her initials in Kelly's room.

lol!!!

[Joshua Rogan]

On subject - I think Anderson's witness was a confused amalgamation of memories decades after the event.

Quite probably, and it would be no surprise - he was hardly Johnny on the spot during the killings, after all.
I don't think he took up his post until the day after Polly was murdered, and before the next he went on sick leave to the continent for a month, returning only after the Double Event.

[Joshua Rogan]

Of course Fanny Mortimer told everyone that she saw nothing, it's clear she was the real killer. Her name practically screams "death to prostitutes". Hell, she even left her initials in Kelly's room.

[John Malcolm]

Can't seem to delete my post, so I'll just say that I have nothing to say.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Elementary my dear Sholmes!

[Doctored Whatsit]

Excellent point DW for which you have the ‘one time only’ right to say “Elementary my dear Sholmes.”

Elementary my dear Sholmes!

[Losmandris]

Well said Tristan, but said while I was composing my previous post.

In 1908 Anderson was keen on Barnett as a suspect. In his memoirs he switched to the Polish Jew theory, which he likey based on MM's memorandum, but by that time MM had dropped Kosminski and Ostog in favour of Druitt. The definition of the "witness" was that he was the only person to get a good look at the ripper and the sighting was at the Eddows murder site. The person named by the actual witness was Grainger, which points to it being Lawende, or maybe Levy. But Lawende, Harris and Levy didn't see Eddows face so there was no realistic chance of a conviction on the basis that they saw a man and woman talking near the murder site shortly before the body was found.

On subject - I think Anderson's witness was a confused amalgamation of memories decades after the event. I think the actual witness, if there was one, was either Watkins or White.

Cheers, George

I kind of have trouble thinking that the identification took place at all or if it did it was a damp squib. Surely if it had been significant, there would be more about it, somewhere? A report or something? Of course I don't buy any of this official cover up stuff. Evidence of it it destroyed during the war? Maybe? But I think if JtR had been id'ed there would have been more of a song and dance about it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I have never understood the alleged relevance of Fanny Mortimer's evidence. It isn't absolutely certain from the newspaper reports what clear evidence she has to offer about what was seen and when. We assume she made a statement to the police, and that would have been much clearer, but we will never know what she actually reported to them.

We do know that sometime, probably around 12. 45 am, Stride entered Dutfield's Yard, she may have been alone or accompanied, and she may have done so voluntarily, or by force, we don't know. But it happened, and Fanny M didn't see it. This is also about the time that Schwartz says he passed by, so if Fanny didn't see Stride enter the yard, then she would be unable to offer evidence about Schwartz either.

The most Fanny M might have been able to offer the police would have been a possible guide to the time when nothing important was happening.

Excellent point DW for which you have the ‘one time only’ right to say “Elementary my dear Sholmes.”

[Herlock Sholmes]

That is an excellent point, DW.

If Fanny never saw Stride, who was most definitely on Berner Street and subsequently in the yard where she was killed, why is anyone suspicious that Fanny didn't see Schwartz either, or the brief incident he described?

The strongest bit of Fanny's testimony is that she heard a pony and cart after retiring for the night and remarked on it to her husband, before going back out to see what the commotion was. That fits neatly with Louis D's account so I see no need to doubt either on that part of the night's events.

Love,

Caz
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Last point about Stride (sorry Tristan)

Agreed Caz, this is an excellent and often ignored point by Doctored Whatsit. Why isn’t Michael concerned that she didn’t see Stride either and it can’t be disputed that she was there.

[Abby Normal]

I have never understood the alleged relevance of Fanny Mortimer's evidence. It isn't absolutely certain from the newspaper reports what clear evidence she has to offer about what was seen and when. We assume she made a statement to the police, and that would have been much clearer, but we will never know what she actually reported to them.

We do know that sometime, probably around 12. 45 am, Stride entered Dutfield's Yard, she may have been alone or accompanied, and she may have done so voluntarily, or by force, we don't know. But it happened, and Fanny M didn't see it. This is also about the time that Schwartz says he passed by, so if Fanny didn't see Stride enter the yard, then she would be unable to offer evidence about Schwartz either.

The most Fanny M might have been able to offer the police would have been a possible guide to the time when nothing important was happening.

bingo dr
all she did was make some poor cigarrete schleppers life miserable for a while. lol

[caz]

I have never understood the alleged relevance of Fanny Mortimer's evidence. It isn't absolutely certain from the newspaper reports what clear evidence she has to offer about what was seen and when. We assume she made a statement to the police, and that would have been much clearer, but we will never know what she actually reported to them.

We do know that sometime, probably around 12. 45 am, Stride entered Dutfield's Yard, she may have been alone or accompanied, and she may have done so voluntarily, or by force, we don't know. But it happened, and Fanny M didn't see it. This is also about the time that Schwartz says he passed by, so if Fanny didn't see Stride enter the yard, then she would be unable to offer evidence about Schwartz either.

The most Fanny M might have been able to offer the police would have been a possible guide to the time when nothing important was happening.

That is an excellent point, DW.

If Fanny never saw Stride, who was most definitely on Berner Street and subsequently in the yard where she was killed, why is anyone suspicious that Fanny didn't see Schwartz either, or the brief incident he described?

The strongest bit of Fanny's testimony is that she heard a pony and cart after retiring for the night and remarked on it to her husband, before going back out to see what the commotion was. That fits neatly with Louis D's account so I see no need to doubt either on that part of the night's events.

Love,

Caz
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