Who Was Anderson’s Witness?

[GBinOz]

Hi Darryl,

Im fairly sure, but I’ll stand correcting of course, that Goldstein never gave a time that he passed. If we take Fanny’s other statement to the Evening News (the one that Michael turns a blind eye to) she said that she was on her doorstep for 10 minutes from the time that Smith passed. So if that’s right she could, for example, have been on her doorstep from 12.33 to 12.43 so she might have seen Goldstein at say 12.42.

Hi Herlock,

To be accurate, Fanny said her 10 minutes started shortly before 12:45, but I agree with your clock correction based on Smith's testimony.

In the same edition of the Evening News (1 Oct) there is another interview with what seems to be a different neighbour, who said that she saw a man with a black bag walking up Berner St and she speculated that he may have come from the Socialist Club. The journalist doesn't name the neighbour as Mortimer, and doesn't indicate where she lived, just that there were 3 people standing in the street chatting. He does say that she was the wife of a " well-to-do artisan". Mortimer's husband, William, was a carman. Also, there are no times mentioned.

I wonder if Goldstein headed up Berner St towards Commercial Road and the Spectacle Coffee Shop to establish an alibi, returning down Berner St later, with his head down, looking up at the club to check what may have been discovered, and then continuing home?

Cheers, George

[Trevor Marriott]

Of course there is a doubt about her killer, Trev.

Yet you insist there is no doubt about who he wasn't.

Love,

Caz
X

and the doubt surrounds whether or not she was killed by the same hand as the other ripper victims and the facts in my opinion suggest she was not.

But you keep beliveing what you want to believe if it makes you happy

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Abby Normal]

Fanny Mortimer? - do we think this is the truth or some old biddy trying to get attention?
She contradicts the Doctor and a few other witnesses
See her statement below

quite right wiggy!
shes useless busy bidy who adds nothing to the case, except obsfucation. she dosnt see the victim nor any suspect and admits she wasnt even at the door the whole time. shes almost as bad a red herring as the stupid cashoo.

[Michael W Richards]

Fanny Mortimer? - do we think this is the truth or some old biddy trying to get attention?
She contradicts the Doctor and a few other witnesses
See her statement below

There is nothing in her statement that contradicts the medicval evidence. And lots that suggest she was well aware of the true nature of that club and its attendees, and therefore very important to the question of whether a Socialist at that club could have been the killer. By Fannys remarks, that is certainly possible. A killer arriving without being seen and leaving unseen while she was watching the street at that time isnt possible.

[Michael W Richards]

Not all Fanny Mortimer's statement can be corroborated but the man with the black shiny bag was Leon Goldstein who came forward to clear himself.
So in order for Mrs Mortimer to have seen him, she must have been at her door some of the time. [ Allowing for the possibility she saw him through her window ].
Regards Darryl

Since she said she was standing at her door, the window insert above isnt valid.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Not all Fanny Mortimer's statement can be corroborated but the man with the black shiny bag was Leon Goldstein who came forward to clear himself.
So in order for Mrs Mortimer to have seen him, she must have been at her door some of the time. [ Allowing for the possibility she saw him through her window ].
Regards Darryl

Hi Darryl,

Im fairly sure, but I’ll stand correcting of course, that Goldstein never gave a time that he passed. If we take Fanny’s other statement to the Evening News (the one that Michael turns a blind eye to) she said that she was on her doorstep for 10 minutes from the time that Smith passed. So if that’s right she could, for example, have been on her doorstep from 12.33 to 12.43 so she might have seen Goldstein at say 12.42.

[Herlock Sholmes]

In order for this killer to have been the person youd like him to be, you still have to have to accept that he left zero evidence that it was him. In this case the absence of evidence is the evidence he was absent.

In the absence of cctv or mobile phone footage we have a murdered prostitute, killed outdoors, with her throat cut, in the same small area where other prostitutes had there throats cut and on a night where we know for a fact that the killer was out and about.

Can anyone imagine the modern day police investigation where these facts were ignored purely and simply due to the lack of mutilation especially when there was an entirely plausible explanation for that. Neither can I because the idea is preposterous.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Fanny Mortimer? - do we think this is the truth or some old biddy trying to get attention?
She contradicts the Doctor and a few other witnesses
See her statement below

Not all Fanny Mortimer's statement can be corroborated but the man with the black shiny bag was Leon Goldstein who came forward to clear himself.
So in order for Mrs Mortimer to have seen him, she must have been at her door some of the time. [ Allowing for the possibility she saw him through her window ].
Regards Darryl

Fanny Mortimer? - do we think this is the truth or some old biddy trying to get attention?
She contradicts the Doctor and a few other witnesses
See her statement below

[Michael W Richards]

Of course there is a doubt about her killer, Trev.

Yet you insist there is no doubt about who he wasn't.

Love,

Caz
X

In order for this killer to have been the person youd like him to be, you still have to have to accept that he left zero evidence that it was him. In this case the absence of evidence is the evidence he was absent.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I cant respond directly to comments Herlock makes because Ive blocked them....too much work having to constantly remind him of the bleeding obvious....but Fanny Mortimer stated in more than one published account that she was at her door "almost the whole time" from 12:30 until 1am, and that after going inside briefly during that half hour she returned to the door around 12:50 and remained there until 1am...we can confirm this by her sighting of Goldstein around 12:55-56. She did not see anyone else during that 10 minutes....and certainly not the arrival of Diemshitz which he insisted was 1am. She said had anyone left through those gates before 1am she would certainly have seen them.

So...stopping Dissing Fanny and finally realize that Liz Strides killer, who cuts her as early as 12:56, doesnt come from the street at all. He was on the property, which is the only place Fanny couldnt see.

Hardly Jack. But its fun playing what if isnt it? If youre really just here to jerk around and have nothing answered.

And the fact that she said ‘almost the whole time’ and for the 10 minutes after Smith shows that she’s hardly reliable. Of course you selectively quote the one that suits. As long as we know how you approach the case.

The Goldstein time is a deduction based on Mortimer and so not necessarily accurate. He didn’t say what time he passed.

Defending a comedy theory is one thing but it’s pointless trying to manipulate the evidence to suit….

About as pointless as blocking me so you can’t see my posts and then reading my them when you’re not logged in and then responding to them. Has anyone ever heard anything as pathetic?

[caz]

So if it was that bleeding obvious then there is a doubt about her killler, its not rocket science

https://www.trevormarr

Of course there is a doubt about her killer, Trev.

Yet you insist there is no doubt about who he wasn't.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Hi Caz,
Coming as his crimes did only a few years after the centenery, do you think that Napper might have been familiar with the Ripper crimes, and perhaps even inspired by them?

Hi Josh,

I would doubt it personally, but you never know. Such killers appear to live too much in a world of their own to reach for any inspiration from infamous cases to do what must come from within themselves. The human condition will produce similarities with other crimes, without the killer necessarily knowing about them or being influenced by the behaviour patterns.

I suspect it's more the stuff of crime fiction to suggest that an individual can be led to murder by learning about it as a kind of 'craft', or that one murderer will look to others for ideas. If it's in them, they already know what they want to do. And if it's all been done before by others - which in most cases it will have been - I doubt it would make a difference either way.

Love,

Caz
X

[Michael W Richards]

Not consistent with which other murders, Trevor? The one in the open street, or the backyard, or the corner of a square, or in a room? There is no consistency in the other murder locations, so in that sense this one is entirely consistent.

It would seem that from Annie on that backyards or the backs of facilities were the choice Josh. A step or 2 from the street is a step back to Polly. Do you imagine that this killer is nostalgic, or that he forgot how successful his mutilations could be when he moved back from the street.

[Michael W Richards]

Indeed, Herlock. As it was so dark in the yard that Louis needed a match to see what had caused his pony to shy, the killer only had to crouch down a little away from the body and keep still, and wait for the chance to leave unseen. Louis's attention would have been on the woman before he went inside the club for help.

Love,

Caz
X

Evidence for any of that post? Any evidence at all? A smidgen? A hint this is what actually happened? ???? I thought not.