If Schwartz Lied ...

[Herlock Sholmes]

. Goldstein looked in and saw men there, some of whom might shoo him along, so he kept walking. He had a bag with empty cigarette cartons in it and its reported that men in the cottages in the passageway were cigarette makers and awake at the time this was going on. I think he was dropping on a carton or 2 there and instead was told quietly to keep walking by.

How many more ‘liars’ are you going to keep assuming to keep this plot afloat? It’s an absolutely fantasy.

[Herlock Sholmes]

. But the fact that the young couple was on the street all throughout that half hour and saw no-one

Why do you assume that they were on the street all throughout this time?

[Michael W Richards]

No. Fanny comes on to her doorstep from between 12.30/12.35 until just before 12.45. Then goes inside.

Goldstein doesn’t mention a time. He might have passed at 12.44 just before she went inside.

So thats your guess, fine. If she said whether she was in or at the door at those times youd be spot on...but she didnt. Its widely accepted that Fanny saw Goldstein at 12:55-56.

[Michael W Richards]

How can you suggest this?

All that it would have taken was 1 person coming forward to say that they were looking out of their window during that period and they saw no incident and he would have been proven a liar.

No-one had done that by Sunday night, had they?

[Michael W Richards]

Nonsense. He had zero reason to lie. Your plot motive is a figment of your imagination.

Funny to attribute such excellence to what Louis says and how summarily you dismiss the many people who direct refute his version. Are you actually Herlock Diemshitz?

[Michael W Richards]

Why do you assume that they were on the street all throughout this time?

Because Fanny saw them on that street, and so did Brown. Or would you prefer to suggest that they stepped off into darkness jsut as the action happened like you imagine Fanny did? You should stage manage a play.

[Michael W Richards]

Goldstein was briskly by and looked into the gates, if the other multiple witnesses were accurate then people would be there. The fact he keeps on going could mean he was thrown by the men there.

If youd spend time actually absorbing what is written rather than first deciding youre right about everything anyway, you might have seen that Reason and Logic I mentioned. My scenario fits and only requires that the people who would suffer the greatest if the club was suspected modified their stories to protect themselves. Hardly a revolutionary concept, though one wonders at the inability to conceive of it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

So thats your guess, fine. If she said whether she was in or at the door at those times youd be spot on...but she didnt. Its widely accepted that Fanny saw Goldstein at 12:55-56.

Please at least try and cover the known facts. She said to the EN that she went onto her doorstep just after hearing Smith pass. Smith said that he passed between 12.30 and 12.35 then it’s entirely plausible and likely that she went onto her doorstep around 12.35. So my suggestion is entirely in keeping with evidence.

”it’s widely accepted.”

Michael, it’s widely accepted that Diemschutz discovered the body at 1.00 but that inconvenient fact doesn’t appear to bother you. What you are doing is fitting a time for Goldstein on the time that you believe that she was on her doorstep. If she went inside before 12.45 then it has to be possible that she’d seen Goldstein before 12.45.

[Herlock Sholmes]

No-one had done that by Sunday night, had they?

As Schwartz didn’t come forward until hours later how could they have been even remotely confident that someone might not still come forward. How could Schwartz, when giving his statement, have known that someone hadn’t already come forward. Unless your assuming that the police were sending the club members regular updates on their investigation?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Because Fanny saw them on that street, and so did Brown. Or would you prefer to suggest that they stepped off into darkness jsut as the action happened like you imagine Fanny did? You should stage manage a play.

Or perhaps you should look at things more reasonably Michael.

Fanny would have seen them between 12.35 and 12.45.

Brown: “As I was going across the road I saw a man and woman standing by the Board School in Fairclough-street.”

They had gone around the corner and were in Fairclough Street out of sight to those in Berner Street.

This isn’t difficult stuff.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Goldstein was briskly by and looked into the gates, if the other multiple witnesses were accurate then people would be there. The fact he keeps on going could mean he was thrown by the men there.

If youd spend time actually absorbing what is written rather than first deciding youre right about everything anyway, you might have seen that Reason and Logic I mentioned. My scenario fits and only requires that the people who would suffer the greatest if the club was suspected modified their stories to protect themselves. Hardly a revolutionary concept, though one wonders at the inability to conceive of it.

I refuse to believe that you genuinely believe what you’re writing. A man walks past a gate minding his own business. He looks into a gate, sees nothing and walks on. Only a conspiracist wouldn’t say that this proves that there was no one there. Even if he’d seen some men standing around as he walked quickly by why the hell would he have been scared?

Its very interesting to note that I don’t recall you ever previously claiming that Goldstein lied? I ask the question “how come he saw nothing?” And you come up with it.

Be serious Michael.

[Herlock Sholmes]

….if the other multiple witnesses were accurate

Eagle……..who said 1.00
Gilleman…..who said 1.00
Spooner…….who said 5 minutes before Lamb.
Kozebrodski…….who said guessed that he went for a Constable around 12.45 yet his and Diemschutz voices somehow aren’t heard until 1.00.
Hoschberg…..who guessed at 12.45 but heard a police whistle. How could he have heard the whistle from inside the club seconds after the body was alleged to have been discovered?

Hands up…..has anyone ever heard of such feeble witnesses to base a theory on? Most people would be embarrassed to even suggest it.

[caz]

I find it interesting that after I mention that not only Fanny didnt see or hear Israels event but neither did the young couple who did not go indoors from time to time that half hour....people stopped posting.

I stopped posting, Michael, because I couldn't reason you out of a position you didn't reason yourself into.

I can't speak for anyone else.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I stopped posting, Michael, because I couldn't reason you out of a position you didn't reason yourself into.

I can't speak for anyone else.

Exactly Caz

[caz]

Goldstein was briskly by and looked into the gates, if the other multiple witnesses were accurate then people would be there. The fact he keeps on going could mean he was thrown by the men there.

If youd spend time actually absorbing what is written rather than first deciding youre right about everything anyway, you might have seen that Reason and Logic I mentioned. My scenario fits and only requires that the people who would suffer the greatest if the club was suspected modified their stories to protect themselves. Hardly a revolutionary concept, though one wonders at the inability to conceive of it.

The 'club' would not have been 'suspected', Michael. The man with the sharp knife who had already committed up to three outdoor murders of unaccompanied females would have been.

The club would only have been suspected if they had tried to do what you argue they did, to put the discovery forward to 1am!