Who's talking Cobblers ? John Richardson ?

[lynn cates]

discolouration

Hello Magpie. New one on me. Are you thinking of facial discolouration?

Cheers.
LC

[moonbegger]

One is led almost to believe he was never there at all...was elbowed into testifying by his dear old mum (who thought he was), realised he'd backed himself into a corner, then started embroidering...first the trimmed boot story, then the rusty knife addition, then the non-trimmed boot story...I don't think he makes a particularly credible witness at all...in fact he made a proper old cat's dinner of it!

Dave

Hi Dave ,

I can live with that .. Like i said ( Richardson is unreliable , cadosh is unsure , and Long is Confused )

cheers .
moonbegger .

[Magpie]

Hello Magpie. New one on me. Are you thinking of facial discolouration?

Cheers.
LC

My apologies, I was thinking of Liz Stride. My mistake.

[Bridewell]

Did Mrs. Long see Annie's slayer? Formerly, I thought not. Now, I think so.

So do I, Lynn.

Were "FLM" and the lady, punter and unfortunate? If not, one wonders why they did not come forward. If they were, why did they not go into the yard for sex? If they were leaving the yard, why did they not see Annie?

And that's why.

The coroner, unusually, preferred Mrs Long's evidence over that of the police surgeon in determining time of death. This suggests that she was a compelling witness.
He also asked Chandler whether the fence between No.29 & No.27 would have supported the weight of a man. Why?

Regards, Bridewell.

[moonbegger]

" Were "FLM" and the lady, punter and unfortunate? If not, one wonders why they did not come forward. If they were, why did they not go into the yard for sex? If they were leaving the yard, why did they not see Annie?"

YES maybe 'FLM" was with unfortunate. And yes.. maybe , they did go through to the back yard next door to 29 for whatever. so we'd have Cadosh in the yard left of 29 , Annie , Dead in the yard of 29, "FLM" and unfortunate in the yard to the right of 29. Three different yards , each with their own entrance and exit's .. hence , when "FLM + unfortunate left the back yard .. Annie was Across the fence , how could they see her ? it doesn't even have to be an immediate yard .. but one in close proximity .. The acoustics that time in the morning would mean a sound quite a distance off could in fact sound relatively close, given the close proximity of the buildings and the crisp morning air .

moonbegger.

[lynn cates]

Long et al

Hello MB.

"Richardson is unreliable"

Tend to agree.

"Cadosh is unsure"

Hmm, can you live with imprecise?

"Long is Confused"

About what? The bell striking, surely? Else, she recognised Annie by her face--rare for the WCM witnesses. Most were by clothing.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

learning

Hello Magpie. No reason to apologise. I learn a good bit more from my faux pas than any other way.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

fencing

Hello Colin. Perhaps he hypothesised that the assailant were wont to go over the fence?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

ingress/egress

Hello (again) MB. Could be. But the ingress/egress question looms large here. Mrs. Richardson obviated that vis-a-vis #29 by leaving the doors open.

Cheers.
LC

[moonbegger]

Hello MB.

"Richardson is unreliable"

Tend to agree.

"Cadosh is unsure"

Hmm, can you live with imprecise?

"Long is Confused"

About what? The bell striking, surely? Else, she recognised Annie by her face--rare for the WCM witnesses. Most were by clothing.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn ,

i really don't think any of them are credible witnesses at all . And yes i think my original comment was " cadosh is vague "

cheers
moonbegger .

[lynn cates]

unanimous

Hello MB. A bit astonishing. I can understand a witness or two being a bit off, but all three?

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

All three?

Richardson - unreliable

Well how can I dispute that? Undoubtedly so...

Cadosch - unsure

I can't see how you can justify that - he's not claimed to have heard Annie Chapman being murdered - he seems only to have testified, to the best of his knowledge, to what he heard...he admits freely that he initially thought nothing of the noises he'd heard...His timings seem to hold up...

Long - confused

Again I don't get this...she identified Annie Chapman by her face...other witnesses in this series of killings seem to have relied on clothing...she might've been a tad wrong with her timings but this is far from unusual in the LVP...we're so obsessed with time in the modern world, we tend to forget how vague most peoples' timings were back then...

To my mind, tying things in with the medical evidence is the key part...the coroner seemed to favour the witnesses testimony over that of the medic...this seems unusual, (it generally being the other way round I think), and suggests to me that Cadosch and Long came across as pretty compelling witnesses...

So how long does food take to digest, and how much does chill (not extreme cold which delays the onset of rigor) advance rigor mortis...how much was the good doctor relying on body temperature, and how much rigor mortis?

I'm not a medical expert...and elsewhere on Casebook this matter has been done to death...the available medical thinking seems to be totally divided on both issues...so at present your guess is as good as mine...but it remains nothing more than a guess!

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

Yes, But

Hello Colin. Perhaps he hypothesised that the assailant were wont to go over the fence?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

But on this occasion, that would involve going over the fence into the yard where Cadosch was standing. Why didn't he ask the same question with regard to the fence between 29 & 31?

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

Waffles, anyone?

Hello Dave. Could be because Dr. Phillips waffled a bit at inquest and admitted he might be in error.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

On the fence.

Hello Colin. Well, perhaps in his mind the answer applied to both? That is, he might have thought both fences in roughly the same condition.

Cheers.
LC