PC William Smith

[curious]

Hello Velma. Quite true. And with the City of London rules, she'd be out that night when sober.

How ironic.

Cheers.
LC

And incredibly sad.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Lynn,

This isn't the thread for it, but suffice it to say that while Pearly Poll certainly knew Tabram, it's questionable that they were actual friends, and Poll gave the police the runaround, contradicted herself, was likely paid, and by the time of the inquest Reid was quite hard on her, giving the impression he did not even want her evidence given at the inquest. The police abandoned the 'soldier theory' even before this, but because the Pearly Poll story dominates the coverage of Tabram's murder in just about every single modern book, and is accepted as history, the soldier myth holds firm.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[RedBundy13]

[QUOTE=Tom_Wescott;203037]Hi Red. The rain occurred earlier, was in full swing at the time Stride and her man ducked into the pub where Best and Gardner were, and ended no later than 11:30pm. Her clothes were bone dry when she was discovered, putting the lie to Matthew Packer’s story of having watched her stand in the open rain for 30 minutes eating grapes.



Thanks Tom and Lynn for the correction on the weather. Much appreciated.

[lynn cates]

covering

Hello Tom. Yes, I know that Poll took a good pranging in the various reports. Feels like she is holding something back.

Makes one wonder if she were covering for a friend.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Packer

Hello Red. Now just try convincing Matthew Packer. Meteorology was not his strong point.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Lynn,

What makes you think she was protecting a friend? Or holding something back? I think it more likely that she knew nothing than that she knew who the killer was.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

Why?

Hello Tom. Then how account for her performance under questioning? Why even go to the identity parade?

Oops. Are we off topic?

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hi Lynn,

What makes you think she was protecting a friend? Or holding something back? I think it more likely that she knew nothing than that she knew who the killer was.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I think there is something very strange about her actions.

I've wondered if she did not "get the heck out of Dodge" once Martha was killed for fear of her own life, which makes me think she was not likely to identify the soldiers they were with.

Which makes me wonder if the two women had thought the guys were drunk enough to "roll" and Martha got a nasty surprise. (which would not account for the silence, but there has been some suggestion that the testimony of the people living in the closest apartment suggests they did hear, but did not help {read that on here many months ago}).

So many possibilities . . .

[RedBundy13]

Time?

How much time had past from the murder to the first police line-up? Was it possible that the suspects may have left on a ship prior to the line-ups? Or were there no military ships that had left before that?

[Tom_Wescott]

Pearly Poll had already been long out of 'dodge'. She would have known both Emma Smith and Martha Tabram, as Smith lived next door to Pearly Poll on George Street. However, Poll had been in the infirmary off and on from the time of Smith's murder to two days before Tabrams murder, so she wouldn't have seen Tabram for a couple of weeks. Upon leaving the infirmary, Poll DID NOT return to George Street but instead went to Crossingham's Lodging house (across the street from Mary Kelly).

According to Henry Turner, Tabram had been living at George Street for 4 or 5 months, but had never once mentioned Pearly Poll. He'd never heard of her, so I question not only that they were out together with two young soldiers for almost 2 hours, but that the two were very good friends at all. Pearly Poll tries to invoke the murder of Emma Smith (who I feel was almost certainly murdered by the same people who killed Tabram) by referring to Tabram as 'Emma' and by saying that her (Poll's) corporal companion carried a walking stick which he hit her with just before parting with Tabram and her private.

Pearly Poll was an opportunistic slum dweller, just like the type that fills the ghetto today. I think she tried to sell a story to the police and became intimidated when they wanted her to go to the Tower (a scary place) to look at soldiers, so she freaked out and disappeared, but eventually went through with it to save face (and possible jail time). Do I think she knew who killed Tabram? No.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

How much time had past from the murder to the first police line-up? Was it possible that the suspects may have left on a ship prior to the line-ups? Or were there no military ships that had left before that?

Hi Red. Because of PC Barrett's having spoken with a guardsman around 2am, Reid communicated with the Tower almost immediately and all soldiers who had been out during the hours of the murder were sequestered and accounted for, so they were available for both Barrett and Poll to view. The Coldstream Guards were likewise able to have all men present when she went there.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[jason_c]

I think there is something very strange about her actions.

I've wondered if she did not "get the heck out of Dodge" once Martha was killed for fear of her own life, which makes me think she was not likely to identify the soldiers they were with.

Which makes me wonder if the two women had thought the guys were drunk enough to "roll" and Martha got a nasty surprise. (which would not account for the silence, but there has been some suggestion that the testimony of the people living in the closest apartment suggests they did hear, but did not help {read that on here many months ago}).

So many possibilities . . .

This wouldnt explain why she went to the police in the first place. It was Pearly Poll who came forward voluntarily. This does not sound like someone in fear of her life. I think Tom's explanation is more mundane therefore more likely.

[Wickerman]

How much time had past from the murder to the first police line-up? Was it possible that the suspects may have left on a ship prior to the line-ups? Or were there no military ships that had left before that?

There's a source available somewhere on Casebook (I think) that explains a number of soldiers going out on the town would often switch tunic's for the night just incase any one of them got into trouble.
The rank on the jacket (stripes) would not match the facial features, hence lead to uncertainty of the witness.

Regards, Jon S.

[RedBundy13]

There's a source available somewhere on Casebook (I think) that explains a number of soldiers going out on the town would often switch tunic's for the night just incase any one of them got into trouble.
The rank on the jacket (stripes) would not match the facial features, hence lead to uncertainty of the witness.

Regards, Jon S.

Good point, that would explain alot