Schwartz and Brown

[Fisherman]

Tom W:

"Had no one died that night, he would have kept thinking he witnessed a domestic dispute."

Canīt believe you wrote that, Tom! Thatīs MY argument, you know...

At an rate, Tom; a good post there, just like Michael says.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Lynn Cates:

"Sorry, I just watched the Depp movie. What rubbish!"

That TOO is my argument! Why are everybody stealing my arguments this morning?

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

pipe man

Hello Harry. That's true. But I was under the impression that pipe man followed Schwartz for some time.

Perhaps he returned and helped Liz?

Is there an implication that pipe man was her assailant later?

The best.

LC

[lynn cates]

axiology

Hello Fish. Well, intelligent people usually steal ONLY things of value.

The best.

LC

[lynn cates]

irony

Hello All. Does anyone find it ironic that, at various times, an advertisement pops up proclaiming, "This is how I got ripped in 4 weeks"?

A bit disconcerting?

LC

[Fisherman]

"intelligent people usually steal ONLY things of value."

Brilliant point, Lynn - didnīt think of that.

The best,
Fisherman

[perrymason]

Hi Michael,

What is the basis for your conclusion that Abberline supported Schwartz's statement?

Im not sure that I can recall a quote that specifically backs the story as we do have in the case of Hutchinson cd, but we do know Abberline had strong opinions on what the "Lipski" remark likely inferred, which to me at least suggests he took the statement quite seriously.

Its an interesting thing to note is that Schwartz's "Lipski" element is discussed in later notations, some after the completion of the Inquest....yet we have no record that suggests or even in passing remarks that Schwartz gave his statement at those proceedings.

My feeling is that the reason Lipski is so enduring is because if it was as Abberline supposed, then the man seen with Liz was most probably not a Jew. Yet as we know, many senior investigators stated their belief was that the killer was a Polish or Eastern European Jew. Im sure they struggled to reconcile their beliefs with BSM as the probable killer of Liz, based on that story.

Cheers cd

[lynn cates]

Abberline

Hello Mike. The story with which I am familiar is that Abberline was familiar with the racial slur "Lipski" and was perhaps the first to head the investigation in that direction.

The best.
LC

[harry]

Lynn,
How far and for how long Pipeman followed,is not known,but why should it be for any great distance or time?Forty or fifty yards would not have put him out of reckoning,and I see no reason why it should be more than that.

[lynn cates]

pipe amn

Hello Harry. You are right, of course. All we know is that Schwartz beat a hasty retreat but pipe man "did not follow so far."

Do you think pipe man may have returned and "settled" Liz?

The best.
LC

[harry]

Lynn,
I look at it this way.Pipeman could have been the person seen by Brown with Stride."Some other time", was not a complete rejection.They break up,Stride turning into Berner Street,with Pipeman watching from the corner.Pipeman sees the scrimmage at the entrance to the yard,but because of the poor light does not see clearly.He does however see Stride fall.He sees a man cross the street and hurry towards him though on the opposite side of the road.He attempts to delay this person to find out what had happened,but Schwartz ,seeing him,and mistaking his intentions,begins to run.Pipeman follows for a short distance,before returning to where Stride is now standing at the yard entrance,BS having gone,or in the process of doing so.She sees a person who only minutes ago had been in her company and had shown no menace,so accepts his presence.She is therefor off guard to any sudden danger.

[lynn cates]

identification

Hello Harry. So in your reckoning, pipe man = BO man (brushed off man) and it was he who eventually killed Liz?

I would appreciate any details you care to provide, for example, was BO man Liz's date? Any speculation about the nature of Liz's rejection?

Do you think it was the rejection which led ultimately to her demise?

The best.
LC

[dixon9]

could the 'No not tonight,some some other night'couple (who James Brown saw) have been the young sweethearts?


Dixon9
still learning

[harry]

Lynn,
All that is reported to have happened,did so from about 1245AM,according to witnesses,and was over by 1AM,but of course one has to make allowances.Mine is a theoretical account of what I believe could have happened.I have added no one who was not reported to have been there.I have assumed that the man Brown saw,and the person labelled Pipeman,were one and the same person.I have put a different interpretation on the initial incident as described by Schwartz.Only one man supplied details.That was Schwartz.One must believe,disbelieve,or interpret those details.Everyone who comments on the issue does so.Brown's Statement describes a situation of mutual trust,a condition I feel had to be present if she was to be put off guard.
Dixon9,
All things are possible,but I am of the opinion the woman Brown saw was Stride.I would welcome any suggestion,backed by resonable evidence,that she was not.

[lynn cates]

possibility

Hello Dixon. Yes, quite possible I think.

The best.
LC