Schwartz and Brown

[Fisherman]

Tom W:

"I've exaggerated nothing."

Yes you have, Tom - true to your habit of doing so when discussing Kidney.

"If you've dropped Kidney as your preferred suspect in the murder of Stride, then you must have come to appreciate the same information which points away from Kidney."

In order to drop someone as a preferred suspect, you of course need to HAVE him as the preferred suspect in the first place. And I donīt, as I have told you on more than one occasion - my hunch is that Stride and Kidney were not on charitable terms on the night Stride died, while she was certainly very friendly with Marshallīs man. And I believe that there is every chance that this man and BS man were one and the same. And BS man is by far the most probable killer.
Kidneys viability still stands, though - we have the alledged row, we have signs of previous abuse and we seem to be dealing with a rough, boastful character, quite possibly with contacts in the criminal world.

As for Browns couple, I agree with Jon Guy that it would not have involved Stride.

The best, Tom!
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

AP Wolf?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

shakespeare

Hello Tom. The old bard himself.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

Her habits were too bad.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

P.S. Where did you get nunnery from?

[lynn cates]

nunnery

Hello Tom. I think you are dead on in your assessment of Liz. Whatever other plans she had for that night, they did NOT involve a nunnery.

The best.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

I don't personally subscribe to the idea that Liz had a beau other than Michael Kidney. My reasoning is that none of her friends were aware of this man and Stride was seen with different men on the night of her murder. However, theorizing can be fun, and there are a couple of loose leads that might lead to the identity of the man she was seen kissing.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Roy Corduroy]

the "Lahore Kebab House"

Lahore.

Hi guys, I can see where this is headed.

Michael, I don't know why you don't just start a thread for Mo Eagle under Suspects. Before you do, though, you might want to click on the Witness Info to the left and read about this man. The material that John Bennett and others have been slaving over.

Morris Eagle was engaged to Kate. She is probably the lady he escorted home. They were married shortly thereafter and had kids and lived right in the neighborhood until 1891. Kate was a young woman his age.

Liz Stride was one of the middle aged unfortunates. The whole scenario of the "date" between Eagle and Stride is all wrong. If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

Roy

[lynn cates]

tipsy

Hello Mike. Ditto. I presume that she dumped him and was then enthusiastic about her "big date." If her old flame showed up as she awaited her date (a club member?), she may have been rude to him (making sneering comparisons?). That could cause a knife to come out--especially on the part of a tipsy gent who'd just been insulted.

The best.
LC

Hello Mike. And if, as Sam suspects, it were an old flame of Liz's, she would likely not take him too seriously (after all, she'd dumped him before, why not again?). A fatal mistake.

The best.
LC

I was thinkin that too amigo.

When it comes to her turning her back and setting out to walk away from this guy, with breath fresheners in her hand, I only see her doing that if she thought she could anticipate his reaction and felt she was safe regardless of any resistance he might put forward to her leaving. She didnt think the man would actually hurt her.

Only someone she knew could elicit that kind of comfort level I think.

Cheers mate

[Sam Flynn]

Mike - you know I don't like speculating on states of mind

I will say, however, that Liz clutching onto the cachous as she was presumably being flung backwards with a knife at her throat is a bit tricky to explain, whether she knew her assailant or not.

[lynn cates]

old flame

Hello Mike. And if, as Sam suspects, it were an old flame of Liz's, she would likely not take him too seriously (after all, she'd dumped him before, why not again?). A fatal mistake.

The best.
LC

A good point to raise, thanks Gareth, sometimes the factors that need to be evaluated are the ones that are on the roads less travelled....investigatorially speaking.

Thread wise though.....would you agree with the earlier exchanges between Lynn and I that we need to resolve the question of Liz's likely state of mind at the time of her attack to explain how breath fresheners are in her hand?

Seems to me that if she was holding cashous as she was choked with the scarf and cut, with her back turned towards her killer, she did not fear an attack just prior to it. Even though she may have been leaving the yard to escape the man she was with.

Does the scenario that she felt comfortable perhaps rejecting this mans attention or advances without any immediate fear of reprisal suggest she was unafraid of someone she didnt know at all?

My best regards Sam

[Sam Flynn]

Interesting teases there Sam, are we talking about policemen, cousins of someone she was working... for or something to that effect?

All possible, Mike. We'll never know, of course, but Stride's relative familiarity with the streets "south of Commercial Road" has, I think, to be borne in mind.



Red arrow - Dutfield's Yard, Berner Street
Blue arrow - Stride's former residence, Devonshire Street


... NB: the "Lahore Kebab House" was a more recent development

Interesting teases there Sam, are we talking about policemen, cousins of someone she was working... for or something to that effect?

And I really dont mean to come across as so vehement about certain points, I just hope that people will see that I am not trying to justify any suspect theory in the Ripper cases.... Im just trying to understand on what basis I should accept some existing ones. Or a pre-ordained victims list.

Best regards

[Sam Flynn]

Could be, Lynn. I've no idea whom he might have been, though.