What EXACTLY did Maurice Lewis say?

[Wickerman]

They weren't even identified within 6 or 7 hours of their deaths, so how could that question possibly make any sense?

Oh, I see.

Ok, then why isn't Catherine Lane under suspicion?
She last saw Stride about 7-8:00 Saturday evening in the lodging house at Flower & Dean St. Just 5-6 hours before Stride was found murdered.
She never went rushing to police to tell them Stride was in the lodging house around 7:30 Saturday night - thats damn suspicious!

Then there's that deceptive Elizabeth Tanner, she saw Stride in the Queens Head pub about 6:30 Sat. evening, but she never went running to police to admit she was with Stride ONLY 6.5 hours before the murder.
Why didn't she go, you would have, right?
Gareth would have been off like a shot. Which only means one thing, Tanner had something to hide!!

Sound silly? - actually I'd say it sounds stupid.
But then again, its not my argument.

[Sam Flynn]

Have you given up policing the thread content?

What on earth do you mean? I haven't been policing anything.

[Sam Flynn]

Again, how many witnesses came forward 6-7 hours before the time Nichols, Chapman, Stride or Eddowes were reported to have been murdered?

They weren't even identified within 6 or 7 hours of their deaths, so how could that question possibly make any sense?

[Wickerman]

Yes Simon "a son", and "a mother".
It was the Star who assigned a son to her.

Three of them sharing a room, not what we have become familiar with for the murdered woman.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jon,

True. Although it doesn't explicitly state that the little boy was her son.

Regards,

Simon

[Wickerman]

Have you given up policing the thread content?

I'm not making excuses.

Hutchinson saw a "stern" looking man picking up his friend on the morning of her death, witnessed him spending a considerable amount time in her room, and hours later - doesn't matter if it was 1, 3, 5 or 7 - she is horrifically and brutally killed.

Again, how many witnesses came forward 6-7 hours before the time Nichols, Chapman, Stride or Eddowes were reported to have been murdered?
Why is it only Hutchinson who is expected to have done this?

Yet, because of some early, confusing press reports, Hutchinson decided to say bugger all about it to the police? Oops, I forgot again! he didn't keep it to himself, because he'd already told an unidentified copper previously, so he obviously thought his evidence was worth something to the police. Why not make a statement at that point?

Furthermore, when he was asked why he he didn't make his statement sooner, why say that he'd already told a policeman, when - if your suggestion is correct - he could simply and truthfully have said "because I thought from what I'd read in the papers that Mary was still alive in the morning"?

The constable obviously didn't think it relevant, likely for the same reason I have said.
Hutchinson told us the PC did not go to the police station. We are not told why. Yet the reason is obvious.

[Wickerman]

The Standard, 10th November 1888—

“Yesterday morning . . . Kelly and other women again met in the Britannia. They had been drinking for some time when one of the party was called to the door, and, on returning, whispered to Kelly, who at once went out. Then the woman who had been the medium of communication between Kelly and the person at the door said to the others ‘She’s got a call.’ The women remained drinking, until they heard shouts of ‘Murder’ in the street, when they all rushed out. Several of them ran up M’Carthy’s Court, and looked through the window of Kelly’s room. What they saw is almost too revolting to describe. They saw plainly the disemboweled body of their companion, and those who had courage enough to enter the room saw that the head was almost severed from the body . . .”

Regards,

Simon

Doesn't that same article identify this Mary Jane Kelly as living in a little room with her son, eight years old?

True?
The deceased having a son was circumstantial gossip at the time. More likely a different woman altogether than the Kelly who was murdered.

[Wickerman]

Weather for 8 November - Dull cold day; rain at night
Weather for 9 Nov - Wet till 11A.M, then overcast

Didn't you forget to mention that the measurable amount of rain was "n/a".
So little it was not measurable.
Thats what we used to call drizzle, not "raining hard".

[Abby Normal]

Who served MJK in the Ringers, who else was there, who was the man she was seen talking to fifteen minutes later. Who else saw Maxwell and MJK talking Mary leaves her room early in the morning, goes to The ringers, solicits for a client in the immediate vicinity [ she couldn't have gone too far ], whilst badly hungover, in the cold and rain. Comes back with said client, has to open the door through the window so anyone within the court can see this. Client murders Mary, then as to leave by the door. Three times the door opened and shut yet nobody saw this happening, and Maurice Lewis said the court was busy by ten. Also we have the negative evidence of Catherine Pickett who knocked on Mary's door at seven thirty to find no reply. Of course Mary could have been out and about at that time, if not dead, but Catherine Pickett never saw her, and neither did John Mcarthy whose shop Mary would have to pass to leave the court. If he did see her, wouldn't he have gone out, or sent Bowyer out to ask for the rent arrears instead of having to bang on her door later?

Yup. And While it’s possible maxwell and Lewis saw Mary in the day light morning, I doubt it. Times way too tight. Plus would a woman so sick head back out to the bar again after having just done so and gotten sick? Let alone pick up a client for sex.i don’t see it.

[Sam Flynn]

Swanson wasn't sure if Broadshouldered man was necessarily involved in Strides death, and that was only 15 minutes before her murder.

6-7 hours Gareth, quit making excuses.

I'm not making excuses.

Hutchinson saw a "stern" looking man picking up his friend on the morning of her death, witnessed him spending a considerable amount time in her room, and hours later - doesn't matter if it was 1, 3, 5 or 7 - she is horrifically and brutally killed.

Yet, because of some early, confusing press reports, Hutchinson decided to say bugger all about it to the police? Oops, I forgot again! he didn't keep it to himself, because he'd already told an unidentified copper previously, so he obviously thought his evidence was worth something to the police. Why not make a statement at that point?

Furthermore, when he was asked why he he didn't make his statement sooner, why say that he'd already told a policeman, when - if your suggestion is correct - he could simply and truthfully have said "because I thought from what I'd read in the papers that Mary was still alive in the morning"?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Richard,

It may sound like hogwash, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

I very much doubt the door to Room 13 was locked. It had to appear locked in order to preserve the scenario and timings that we've all come to cherish.

Regards,

Simon

[richardnunweek]

Hi Simon.
All of this sounds hogwash.
If a man beckon Kelly over, then the go-between would have been a star witness,being able to describe the last person seen with the victim.
By the time the shout of murder echoed down Dorset street the police would have been there in the court, its highly unlikely that McCarthy and Bowyer would have advertised the fact en -route to the police station.
No members of the public would have had access to the court,especially some women who had been drinking in the local pub., and the door was locked so no entry would have been possible.
Regards Richard,

[Simon Wood]

The Standard, 10th November 1888—

“Yesterday morning . . . Kelly and other women again met in the Britannia. They had been drinking for some time when one of the party was called to the door, and, on returning, whispered to Kelly, who at once went out. Then the woman who had been the medium of communication between Kelly and the person at the door said to the others ‘She’s got a call.’ The women remained drinking, until they heard shouts of ‘Murder’ in the street, when they all rushed out. Several of them ran up M’Carthy’s Court, and looked through the window of Kelly’s room. What they saw is almost too revolting to describe. They saw plainly the disemboweled body of their companion, and those who had courage enough to enter the room saw that the head was almost severed from the body . . .”

Regards,

Simon

[Darryl Kenyon]

That was my conjecture some time back Richard. Cox is the only witness who said it was raining, and raining hard. Neither Lewis, Kennedy, Bowyer, or Hutchinson say it was raining.
Thats negative evidence of course but it is worth pointing out.
However, Cox does mention the singing.....so she is redeemed I guess.

Weather for 8 November - Dull cold day; rain at night
Weather for 9 Nov - Wet till 11A.M, then overcast

[Darryl Kenyon]

Who served MJK in the Ringers, who else was there, who was the man she was seen talking to fifteen minutes later. Who else saw Maxwell and MJK talking Mary leaves her room early in the morning, goes to The ringers, solicits for a client in the immediate vicinity [ she couldn't have gone too far ], whilst badly hungover, in the cold and rain. Comes back with said client, has to open the door through the window so anyone within the court can see this. Client murders Mary, then as to leave by the door. Three times the door opened and shut yet nobody saw this happening, and Maurice Lewis said the court was busy by ten. Also we have the negative evidence of Catherine Pickett who knocked on Mary's door at seven thirty to find no reply. Of course Mary could have been out and about at that time, if not dead, but Catherine Pickett never saw her, and neither did John Mcarthy whose shop Mary would have to pass to leave the court. If he did see her, wouldn't he have gone out, or sent Bowyer out to ask for the rent arrears instead of having to bang on her door later?