Finding Israel Schwartz

[Michael W Richards]

Israel may have been easier to find than we believe.

He said he was standing outside the gates of the Mens Club at 12:45, to see if his wife had finished moving....and there are several cottages on the side of the passageway opposite the Ed Club, one is occupied by Lave. Others are said to be occupied by "cigarette makers". I dont believe that all the cottage residents appeared on a census. We also have evidence that Israel and Wess were known to each other from meeting each other in Paris a few years before. We also have evidence that suggests Wess may have interpreted for Schwartz at the station Sunday night. He did so for Goldstein on the following Tuesday night.

So....is it possible that the address Israel and his wife were moving from was right where he says he was arriving at 12:45...perhaps in one of the cottages?

It would explain why he would be there, because he never says where he expected to check on his wife...it would explain why Wess might translate for him, and it would perhaps address why Israel isnt invited to tell his tale at an Inquest. Maybe discovering he was residing on the property the dead woman is found on might suggest his story might be very favourable to the club and its members? Like placing a gentile on an empty street harrassing the soon to be victim helps the club avoid suspicions that someone on that property killed Stride. Because if the assault actually happened, then gentile BSM would be suspect number one...not the men at the club at the time...who by the way are the ONLY people known to be there and had access to the passageway and the gates.

The fact that BSM, Pipeman and Liz are seen by a 4th person, Schwartz, is very unlikely anyway, we have witnesses to the street that saw none of those people on that street after 12:35. The street was said to be by numerous witnesses of that half hour, empty.

[c.d.]

Why can't we find anything on Schwartz?....false name

That doesn't necessarily follow. You have completely disallowed any other reason.

c.d.

[The Rookie Detective]

Why did the man who went to the police and gave his name as "Israel Schwartz"... give a false name to the police?

How do you know it was a false name?

c.d.

Because real names leave a trace in written records.

Why can't we find Mary Kelly's antecedents?....false name

Why can't we find anything on Schwartz?....false name

Why can't we find anything on Hutchinson?.... false name.

Lechmere is different of course; he used the name Cross for work and so using either Lechmere OR Cross wasn't giving a false name.

We know so much about Lechmere's life...because he left traces that can be found and analysed.

Now imagine that Lechmere gave a false name...like Hutchinson or Schwartz... and we then couldn't trace the man who discovered Nichols just minutes after the killer left the scene.

Schwartz and Hutchinson both insert themselves into the investigation by placing themselves at the crime scene.

While that may sound an odd thing to do; it's impact actually provides Schwartz and Hutchinson with the perfect alibi, because if anyone were to recognise them; they could say "well yes of course I was there".

It's clever reverse psychology that they police at the time would not have understood.

So... False names.



RD

[c.d.]

Why did the man who went to the police and gave his name as "Israel Schwartz"... give a false name to the police?

How do you know it was a false name?

c.d.

[The Rookie Detective]

Bump up.

A fascinating thread indeed.


Israel Schwartz


The unknown entity with the theatrical appearance


There's more to Schwartz than we realise.


The first question should be...

Why did the man who went to the police and gave his name as "Israel Schwartz"... give a false name to the police?

When countless researchers and historians can't find any details of an individual outside of the case; then it is highly probable that the individual has given a false name...and therefore can't be traced.


Israel Schwartz
George Hutchinson
Mary Jane Kelly


All false names



But why?


RD

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Hi All,

Israel Schwartz.

How must a person be dressed in order to have the "appearance of being in the theatrical line"? [Star, 1st October 1888].

Regards,

Simon

ChatGPT:

To give the appearance of being in the theatrical line, a person might consider dressing in a way that reflects creativity, expression, and an understanding of the performing arts. Here are some general tips for achieving a theatrical look:

1. Bold and Expressive Clothing: Theatrical attire often involves bold, vibrant colors and unconventional styles. Consider wearing clothing that stands out and expresses a unique personality.
2. Costume Pieces: Incorporate elements that resemble costumes. This could include statement accessories, dramatic headpieces, capes, or theatrical makeup. These elements can convey a sense of artistic flair.
3. Layers and Textures: Experiment with layers and textures to create a visually interesting ensemble. Mixing different fabrics, patterns, and textures can add depth to your look.
4. Accessories: Statement accessories such as oversized jewelry, hats, gloves, or even props like a fake microphone, can contribute to a theatrical appearance.
5. Dramatic Makeup: Pay attention to makeup. Bold eyeshadow, eyeliner, and lipstick choices can enhance the theatrical effect. Consider using makeup to create dramatic expressions or features.
6. Footwear: Shoes can be an essential part of the overall look. Depending on the character or style you're trying to embody, consider footwear that complements the outfit.
7. Hairstyle: Hairstyling can also play a significant role. Elaborate updos, wigs, or even colorful hair extensions can add to the theatrical effect.
8. Character Inspiration: If you have a specific theatrical character or style in mind, draw inspiration from their costumes and looks. This could be anything from classic Shakespearean garb to avant-garde avant-garde performance art.
9. Confidence and Poise: Theatricality isn't just about what you wear; it's also about how you carry yourself. Walk with confidence, use expressive gestures, and maintain good posture.
10. Personal Interpretation: Ultimately, the theatrical look is subjective and can be open to personal interpretation. It's about expressing creativity and individuality, so don't be afraid to take risks and have fun with it.

Remember, the key to achieving a theatrical appearance is to embrace creativity and expressiveness. Whether you're drawing inspiration from specific characters or creating your own unique style, the goal is to convey a sense of theatricality and artistic flair through your clothing and overall presentation.

[joelhall]

Hi All,

Israel Schwartz.

How must a person be dressed in order to have the "appearance of being in the theatrical line"? [Star, 1st October 1888].

Regards,

Simon

I would imagine he would have looked as if he were dressed in theatrical garb: I.e. what a Londoner may have thought when looking at a Haredi man.

[Wickerman]

My guess would be, for the period, somewhat loudly Simon. Mismatched patterns, dramatic moustache, that kind of thing. Attention seeking.

Schwartz being in "the theatrical line" must surely mean in an official capacity; managerial staff or official.

Henry Irving was not only a leading man, but a theater manager.
His street attire reflects his position in life. Here he is seen leaving the Lyceum (in top hat - center).
Apologies for the size of this pic, didn't have the means to reduce it.



Victorian Britain being the distinctly class-based society it was expected everyone to dress according to their position in life.
Today we find this difficult to visualize, we cannot tell a banker from a doctor, a lawyer, or a clerk. But in the 19th century there were very definite articles of clothing which set one profession aside from another.

[jason_c]

Flamboyantly, I suppose, but I don't think we're talking Quentin Crisp here.

This made me laugh.

[jason_c]

Maybe it was just a cultural difference Simon, someone maybe who had over exaggerated speech and mannerisms (not common to the british).

Or could they have meant somebody who appeared gay? Or the clothing?
Hard to say.
What were London theatrical men like back then I wonder?

Pat.......

This is what I had previously suspected on here but the idea was dismissed. I have an amateur interest in Shakespeare. I remember reading that Shakespeare's ear-ring signified roughly what ear-rings do today; a bit flamboyant and fashionable. I think Schwartz may have worn Victorian equivalent of a bit of bling, and perhaps a few frills on his clothing too. Im imagining Schwartz looking part gypsy, part dandy. Perhaps with a fetching looking hat.

[Paddy]

Thank you very much Debra,

So if they started school in 2-88 that means February right ? That narrows it down quite a bit.
So it is possible the Aaronsons had moved to Ellen Street between October 1886 and February 1888. Also possibly living at 22 Ellen Street after feb 1888
I seem to remember thinking no 22 Ellen Street was Israels wifes familys address is that right do you know?
I found a John McDuell at 22 Ellen street in the St George in the East 1887 Electoral roll but I am not sure if he would be a lodger or owner?

Pat.........

[Debra A]

Pat
It looks like this family were at 45 Boyd St in 1888. I think it's probably the same father in both admissions despite the surname difference:

Name Date of Birth
Date Admitted
Number
Last School Parent or Guardian Address Date Left
Reason Left Notes

Deborah 09-1879
05-03-1888
13795
Simon SHEROTSKY 45 Boyd St 06-1891

Jews' Free School London

Betsy 06-04-1869
16-10-1876


Simon KARETSKY 45 Boyd St 02-1888

Jews' Free School London

[Paddy]

Alexander Aaronson

I received Alexanders' birth certificate that I had been waiting for and it gave the address of 45 Boyd street.
So I still dont know when they moved from Boyd street to Ellen street, only that it was between 1886 and 1890. So frustrating but still possible. I now have to try and see who moved into Boyd street.
If anyone can come up with any ideas ? I have tried the electoral registers.

Pat........

[Robert]

I imagine the trouble was that, just as Liz and BS were having their bust-up, Schwarz came along and rather tactlessly serenaded them with his gypsy violin.

[Abby Normal]

Maybe he was a Gypsy they went in for quite strange frock type things He He !
Maybe Jack was shouting Gypsy not Lipsky ?? (only joking)

Pat

Brilliant!
and cool pic