Robert Paul Time Issues

[Herlock Sholmes]

This frequently quoted suggestion totally bewilders me. Please tell us all you know about what your ancestors did in 1888.

Thats a good point Doc. How can we know that some were aware of this fact. Maybe some old chap who died in the 1950’s remembered being told about it when he was a kid but he never bothered passing it on. Maybe he assumed that everyone knew?

[Geddy2112]

1. ... But the big issue for me though is that if this is seen as a suspicious act then we can see so legitimate reason why. He gave the inquest both of his correct Christian names, his correct address and his correct place of work so he was hiding nothing. The fact that he used his stepfathers name and not Smith or Thompson or Wilson again shows us that he wasn’t trying to deceive the police.

This is one of my 'irritations' - maybe I should put it in the thread. Folks spout claims about X or Y but when asked for evidence to support those claims they disappear. I've read nearly every word on these forums relating to Cross and I do not think I've seen anyone post a valid reason on how giving both your Christian names, your legal surname, your home and work address amounts to deception or giving one an advantage as a serial killer. Especially when Mizen the PC he spoke to that morning was sitting near him at the inquest and could obviously identify him if needs be.

[Geddy2112]

It's perhaps clearer to think of it as an alleged lie rather than as a time gap.

His missus gets her knickers in a twist when I 'cross' post so I'll do it again. An astonishing quote from one of the main Team Lechmere supporters, Mr Stow himself...

they aren't my suspects, they are the suspects chosen by the editor of the book as being, I guess, the most credible suspects - although at least two didn't have opportunity (in my opinion) and others minimal. The only with proven opportunity is Lechmere.

This is what we are dealing with, so called fantastic researchers coming out with complete and utter fabrication like this. If one studies the sworn statements enough there is no time gap, it has been invented. The only way Cross could have killed Polly on what we know is by inventing this time gap. So since the time gap is NOT proven how does Cross have a 'proven opportunity' to kill Polly? What evidence is there he had 'proven opportunity' to murder Annie, Liz, Catherine or Mary Jane? (Or anyone else for that matter.) It's astonishing this level of fabrication is being posted in a vain attempt to finger Cross as a multiple murderer. However the gullible YouTube sheep love it...

[Fiver]

Well, I actually endorse most of this .... and I'm glad that you fervently support the notion that one should favor the majority newspaper testimonies, when they differ on a certain point (see #2).

2. Failed to audibly mention to the assembled reporters his home address at the inquest
- of course one paper actually included it, but we are being consistent and going by the majority - yes?

The newspapers do not disagree on #2. One mentions Cross' home address, the others don't mention it.

Most newspapers don't mention Cross wearing an apron, so by your reasoning he didn't wear one.

[Herlock Sholmes]

This is one of my 'irritations' - maybe I should put it in the thread. Folks spout claims about X or Y but when asked for evidence to support those claims they disappear. I've read nearly every word on these forums relating to Cross and I do not think I've seen anyone post a valid reason on how giving both your Christian names, your legal surname, your home and work address amounts to deception or giving one an advantage as a serial killer. Especially when Mizen the PC he spoke to that morning was sitting near him at the inquest and could obviously identify him if needs be.

I suspect that’s because no one has ever given a remotely valid reason Geddy. Ever. I’ve certainly never heard one, yet I’ve never known anyone that proposes Cross fail to mention the ‘name thing’ at every opportunity. If he’d have missed the apostrophe in Buck’s Row on a written statement they would call it evidence of guilt. Have they mentioned star signs yet? Or leylines? Or the Knght’s Templar? Or mysterious lights seen in the sky? Or am I giving them ideas?

[FrankO]

This frequently quoted suggestion totally bewilders me. Please tell us all you know about what your ancestors did in 1888.

Indeed, DW. On my father's side I know nothing beyond my grandparents, who were born around 1905. On my mother's side more or less the only thing I know beyond my grandparents, is that my mother's maternal grandfather regularly travelled some 70-80 kilometers by boat to sell vegetables and fruit. No big stories, nothing particular.

[Fiver]

This frequently quoted suggestion totally bewilders me. Please tell us all you know about what your ancestors did in 1888.

Most people can't tell you who their ancestors were in 1888, let alone what they did that year.

[Fiver]

Indeed, DW. On my father's side I know nothing beyond my grandparents, who were born around 1905. On my mother's side more or less the only thing I know beyond my grandparents, is that my mother's maternal grandfather regularly travelled some 70-80 kilometers by boat to sell vegetables and fruit. No big stories, nothing particular.

I suspect most people are like that - family stories go back to grandparents, or possibly great-grandparents, but no further. That's how I learned one great-father wasn't initially allowed to date my great-grandmother, because he was a baseball player. (Shock and horror!)

I am fortunate. On the different branches on my father's side, someone put together a genealogy of one branch in 1900, my great grandmother put together a genealogy of another branch in 1975, and my father's cousin put together genealogies for several other branches starting around 1975, as well as interviewing as many of the older generation as he could. On my Mom's side, someone put together a genealogy of one branch in 1975 and an aunt put together another branch in 2000, as well as interviewing as many of the older generation as she could.

Thanks to their work, I know one direct ancestor survived dinner at the Bender Gang roadhouse in Kansas. He was a circuit riding Methodist preacher and either they balked at murdering a preacher or he didn't look prosperous enough to be worth the effort.

But it was my own research that found another ancestor survived nearly a year in Andersonville Prison and then was incorrectly listed as not surviving the sinking of the Sultana. (I still don't know if he survived the sinking or was incorrectly listed as being on board.) You would think the story of either surviving, or at least avoiding, the worst maritime disaster in US history would have been passed down, but it doesn't appear even his grandchildren knew.

And only this last year my father told me I had an aunt who died as an infant. My father was two at the time and does not recall her name or the date.

[FrankO]

I suspect most people are like that - family stories go back to grandparents, or possibly great-grandparents, but no further.

That's the very reason why those celebrity genealogy series on TV exist in various countries.

That's how I learned one great-father wasn't initially allowed to date my great-grandmother, because he was a baseball player. (Shock and horror!)

I am fortunate. On the different branches on my father's side, someone put together a genealogy of one branch in 1900, my great grandmother put together a genealogy of another branch in 1975, and my father's cousin put together genealogies for several other branches starting around 1975, as well as interviewing as many of the older generation as he could. On my Mom's side, someone put together a genealogy of one branch in 1975 and an aunt put together another branch in 2000, as well as interviewing as many of the older generation as she could.

Thanks to their work, I know one direct ancestor survived dinner at the Bender Gang roadhouse in Kansas. He was a circuit riding Methodist preacher and either they balked at murdering a preacher or he didn't look prosperous enough to be worth the effort.

But it was my own research that found another ancestor survived nearly a year in Andersonville Prison and then was incorrectly listed as not surviving the sinking of the Sultana. (I still don't know if he survived the sinking or was incorrectly listed as being on board.) You would think the story of either surviving, or at least avoiding, the worst maritime disaster in US history would have been passed down, but it doesn't appear even his grandchildren knew.

And only this last year my father told me I had an aunt who died as an infant. My father was two at the time and does not recall her name or the date.

Thanks for sharing, Fiver. I'm sure that there are such stories lurking in my family tree too.

[Doctored Whatsit]

Indeed, DW. On my father's side I know nothing beyond my grandparents, who were born around 1905. On my mother's side more or less the only thing I know beyond my grandparents, is that my mother's maternal grandfather regularly travelled some 70-80 kilometers by boat to sell vegetables and fruit. No big stories, nothing particular.

I wrote my original question about us not knowing much about our ancestors back in 1888, fully aware of my own ignorance of my relatives. I only ever knew three of my grandparents, my mother's father having died young with diabetes. I know nothing about him, have never seen a photograph of him, I don't know what his job was, and I don't even know his full name.

Wait, isn't this suspicious ... why do I know so little about him ... they've been keeping something from me ... perhaps he was Jack the Ripper ... or perhaps I've been reading too many silly theories built on desperately collected non-evidence on these threads ...

[FrankO]

I wrote my original question about us not knowing much about our ancestors back in 1888, fully aware of my own ignorance of my relatives. I only ever knew three of my grandparents, my mother's father having died young with diabetes. I know nothing about him, have never seen a photograph of him, I don't know what his job was, and I don't even know his full name.

Thanks for sharing, DW. I know the names of all my grandparents and the jobs of both my grandfathers: one was a very self-centered hairdresser and the other was a strict school master who read books with a red pen at hand, so that he could correct the errors he found in them. I didn't get to know him, as he died of a disease when I was 4 or 5. The hairdresser was an only child and much spoilt by his mother, who died when I was around 5 years old. She died when she was around the age of 95. My mother's mother died when my mother was only 5. When she was 10 her father, the hairdresser, remarried and his new wife wasn't pleasant with my mother. Although my mother later had a very good life with my father, it left her scarred.

Wait, isn't this suspicious ... why do I know so little about him ... they've been keeping something from me ... perhaps he was Jack the Ripper ... or perhaps I've been reading too many silly theories built on desperately collected non-evidence on these threads ...

Thanks for the laugh!