Lawende was silenced

[Pierre]

At the Eddowes inquest Lawende was about to testify about the dress of the man he saw together with Eddowes near the murder site.

But Lawende was silenced by the city solicitor.

The city solicitor said that for particular reasons evidence about the dress of the man should not be given.

The only thing Lawende was allowed to say was that the man had a peaked cap.

Why did they withhold the information about the dress of the man seen with Eddowes before the murder?

Source: Shields Daily Gazette - Thursday 11 October 1888
More sources with the same content:

Hartlepool Northern Daily Mail - Thursday 11 October 1888
South Wales Echo - Thursday 11 October 1888
Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette - Friday 12 October 1888

And in the original inquest sources Lawende states that he has given his description to the police (Evans & Skinner, p. 297).

Regards, Pierre

[Abby Normal]

At the Eddowes inquest Lawende was about to testify about the dress of the man he saw together with Eddowes near the murder site.

But Lawende was silenced by the city solicitor.

The city solicitor said that for particular reasons evidence about the dress of the man should not be given.

The only thing Lawende was allowed to say was that the man had a peaked cap.

Why did they withhold the information about the dress of the man seen with Eddowes before the murder?

Source: Shields Daily Gazette - Thursday 11 October 1888
More sources with the same content:

Hartlepool Northern Daily Mail - Thursday 11 October 1888
South Wales Echo - Thursday 11 October 1888
Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette - Friday 12 October 1888

And in the original inquest sources Lawende states that he has given his description to the police (Evans & Skinner, p. 297).

Regards, Pierre

Because he was dressed like a cop!!!!

[David Orsam]

An interesting U-turn here Pierre.

You seem to relying on newspaper reports when we have the original inquest sources which say nothing of this silencing of Lawende. I thought you regarded this type of thing as impermissible.

[Pierre]

An interesting U-turn here Pierre.

You seem to relying on newspaper reports when we have the original inquest sources which say nothing of this silencing of Lawende. I thought you regarded this type of thing as impermissible.

I already knew you had to say that. So that´s why there is also a reference to the original source. Compare the sources and you will perhaps - if you are lucky - see which source has the tendency. For once!

And your interpretation about "U-turn" is wrong, of course. But I have to say it so the poor proselytes will not be totally led astray by you.

[curious4]

An interesting U-turn here Pierre.

You seem to relying on newspaper reports when we have the original inquest sources which say nothing of this silencing of Lawende. I thought you regarded this type of thing as impermissible.

Would have thought it was best to take both into consideration.

Do we have the original inquest report?

C4

[Pierre]

Because he was dressed like a cop!!!!

Do you really think so, David?

[Pcdunn]

I think they wouldn't let Lawende give a description of the dress of the man he saw at the inquest because there were reporters there and they did not want this particular information being made known in the newspapers.

This can be interpreted as meaning they thought Lawende was a credible witness, and his sighting a good suspect.

[Abby Normal]

Do you really think so, David?

no I don't, Bozo.

[jerryd]

Probably for this reason, Pierre.

The Daily Telegraph
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12, 1888

A correspondent forwards copies of descriptions of certain men who were last seen in the company of the woman who was murdered in Berner-street and of the woman who was mutilated in Mitre-square. These authentic descriptions, we have reason to know, have been secretly circulated by the authorities of Scotland-yard since Oct. 26, but the complete details have never been made public. This reticence is one of the mysteries of police administration, and it is difficult to find an explanation to account for the fact that this important information has been "confidentially communicated" to police-officers throughout the kingdom, but has been withheld from the people who have had the best opportunities of seeing and of, therefore, recognising the assassin. The point which the police appear to have been at most pains to suppress is the significant one that the unknown murderer has the "appearance of a sailor."

[Pierre]

Probably for this reason, Pierre.

The Daily Telegraph
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12, 1888

A correspondent forwards copies of descriptions of certain men who were last seen in the company of the woman who was murdered in Berner-street and of the woman who was mutilated in Mitre-square. These authentic descriptions, we have reason to know, have been secretly circulated by the authorities of Scotland-yard since Oct. 26, but the complete details have never been made public. This reticence is one of the mysteries of police administration, and it is difficult to find an explanation to account for the fact that this important information has been "confidentially communicated" to police-officers throughout the kingdom, but has been withheld from the people who have had the best opportunities of seeing and of, therefore, recognising the assassin. The point which the police appear to have been at most pains to suppress is the significant one that the unknown murderer has the "appearance of a sailor."

Hi,

Well, this is a late source and we do not know the provenience of the so called descriptions. And why would the police want to hide information about someone looking like a sailor?

Regards, Pierre

[Pierre]

no I don't, Bozo.

Good. Everyone can see how rude you are.

[Paddy]

From Swansons Notes.

Stamped Metropolitan Police Office Received 22/7/90

Man seen with woman at 1.35
Age 30 5ft.7" or 8"
Moustache Fair, Medium build. Coat Pepper and Salt Colour, Loose Jacket
Grey Cloth Cap with Peak of same colour.
Reddish handkercheif around neck with knot.

Like a Sailor
CID Ref 64073

Pat.......................

[David Orsam]

I already knew you had to say that.

Pierre, it's almost like you are psychic.

There is nothing in the original inquest source which tells us that Lawende was "silenced" at any time. One can only get that from newspaper reports.

I can only congratulate you on your U-turn in finally understanding that we need to use both forms of sources, depositions and newspaper reports, to understand what happened at those inquests.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paddy,

The following was in The Times, 2nd October 1888, nine days before Mr. Crawford thought that no "further particulars should be given as to the appearance of this man" [seen by Lawende]—

"The following is a description of a man seen in company with a woman who is supposed to be the victim of the murderer in the City. The man was observed in a court in Duke-street, leading to Mitre Square, about 1:40 a.m. on Sunday.

"He is described as of shabby appearance, about 30 years of age and 5ft. 9in. in height, of fair complexion, having a small fair moustache, and wearing a red neckerchief and a cap with a peak."

Regards,

Simon

[Pierre]

Hi Paddy,

The following was in The Times, 2nd October 1888, nine days before Mr. Crawford thought that no "further particulars should be given as to the appearance of this man" [seen by Lawende]—

"The following is a description of a man seen in company with a woman who is supposed to be the victim of the murderer in the City. The man was observed in a court in Duke-street, leading to Mitre Square, about 1:40 a.m. on Sunday.

"He is described as of shabby appearance, about 30 years of age and 5ft. 9in. in height, of fair complexion, having a small fair moustache, and wearing a red neckerchief and a cap with a peak."

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

yes, whatever the various descriptions were, the point is the external source criticism: What is the function of an inquest source where a witness is silenced - and given the provenience of the same source?

Regards, Pierre