Pinchin Street Torso - who did it?

[Abby Normal]

cmon fish and harry now that's both of you holding out. cmon dish! send me a PM if you like!

[Abby Normal]

The 15 inch gash to the abdomen, Abby.

yeah that's what I thought- I didn't realize it was that superficial lol ; )

[Abby Normal]

Think I'll take a leaf out of Pierre's book and withhold my half-baked theory until I've had time to develop it.

hey no fair! well from what you said before -he was losing his desire to kill/mutilate anymore? well if it is that then its a definite possibility. while rare, some serial killers just stop for personal reasons-they get burnt out/ tired of it, grow out of it, etc. Kemper is one example and I cant help but feel the GSK also stopped for personal reasons (family?)

[Fisherman]

hi fish
are they talking about the horizontal cut here which separated the legs or the vertical gash down the midsection?

The 15 inch gash to the abdomen, Abby.

[Fisherman]

Think I'll take a leaf out of Pierre's book and withhold my half-baked theory until I've had time to develop it.

Okay, then Iīll just sit back and wait. Take your time and good luck!

[Harry D]

Okay, so letsīhear it, Harry!

Think I'll take a leaf out of Pierre's book and withhold my half-baked theory until I've had time to develop it.

[Abby Normal]

This snippet from the Times of the 11:th can perhaps cast a little light on things:

"About half past 5 o'clock yesterday morning Police constable Bennett, 239 H, was passing on his beat by a railway arch in Pinchin street, St. George's, when he noticed something in the arch. The place in question is used as a receptacle for stones belonging to the District Board of Works, and in front of it there is a hoarding. Part of this, however, has been broken down, and the officer, getting through it, was horrified to find the trunk of a woman in a condition which showed it had been hacked about in a most brutal manner. The head had been severed from the body, while both legs were also missing, and from the lower part of the stomach was a deep gash through which the bowels were protruding."

The day before, Swanson had written a report about the murder. In it, he wrote: "The wound beginning at the lower part of the sternum, cutting through the skin, fatty substance, and penetrating the bowels, and uterus slightly, extended to the left side of the labia major".

hi fish
are they talking about the horizontal cut here which separated the legs or the vertical gash down the midsection?

[Fisherman]

Honestly fisherman, I don’t think it does. I mean, you don’t believe the bowels were protruding, do you?

What I am certain of is that I never let others decide for me what I believe or not, Kattrup. If the bowels were penetrated and the uterus was partially damaged, then the knife must have passed into the abdominal cavity. That means that there must have been an opening into the abdominal cavity. And what is required for the bowels to protrude is exactly that: an opening into the abdominal cavity.
The Pinchin Street trunk was lying on itīs stomach. The bowels would have been striving downwards by way of gravity. And if there was an opening into the abdominal cavity, that may have offered a possibility for the bowels to protrude through it.

That is not the same as saying that all of them or a large portion of them protruded. It is merely to say that the sources actually open up for a possibility that some portion of them did.

Hebbert said that the peritoneal cavity was not opened whereas the vagina was. But Swanson clearly speaks of damage done to the bowels and uterus, and he must have gotten that information from somewhere. Clarke, at the inquest, said that there was a 15 inch wound through the external coat of the abdomen. Phillips said nothing about the wound at all, as per the Times of the 25:th, but in his report he stated that the wound did not open the abdominal cavity.

As usual, we have no clear picture. Some more digging seems to be needed. Swanson must have been informed by somebody about the damage to the bowels and the uterus, and that somebody was of course not Pennett.

At any rate, if there was an initial take on matters that involved protruding bowels, and damaged innards (and it seems there was, stretching all the way to Swanson), that may have lain behind why disembowelment was spoken of by Pennett. Right or wrong.

[Abby Normal]

The Pall Mall Gazette 10 Sept carries an interview with pc Pennet, in which he describes finding the torso;

"One of our representatives, writing from the scene of the murder at Whitechapel at eleven o'clock says:- I have just had an interview with Constable 239 H, who found the body of Jack the Ripper's latest victim. He I said: “I was passing along Pinchin-street, at the foot of Backchurch-lane, about a quarter-past five this morning, when I saw lying on the ground the trunk of a woman, the head and legs of which had been severed and were not present. The body was quite naked, except for a piece of torn linen which might have been a shift or portion of a pair of drawers, thrown over it. The body was fearfully disembowelled, and was marked as if it had been carried in a sack. My own opinion is that it had been so conveyed to the spot where I found it. The stench was something terrific. It would have been impossible to have passed it.”

Thanks Joshua for posting this.

I note that including the word "disemboweled" (perhaps poor choice of words-or maybe not?) this article also states-

who found the body of Jack the Ripper's latest victim.

interesting.

[Kattrup]

This snippet from the Times of the 11:th can perhaps cast a little light on things:

"About half past 5 o'clock yesterday morning Police constable Bennett, 239 H, was passing on his beat by a railway arch in Pinchin street, St. George's, when he noticed something in the arch. The place in question is used as a receptacle for stones belonging to the District Board of Works, and in front of it there is a hoarding. Part of this, however, has been broken down, and the officer, getting through it, was horrified to find the trunk of a woman in a condition which showed it had been hacked about in a most brutal manner. The head had been severed from the body, while both legs were also missing, and from the lower part of the stomach was a deep gash through which the bowels were protruding."

The day before, Swanson had written a report about the murder. In it, he wrote: "The wound beginning at the lower part of the sternum, cutting through the skin, fatty substance, and penetrating the bowels, and uterus slightly, extended to the left side of the labia major".

Honestly fisherman, I don’t think it does. I mean, you don’t believe the bowels were protruding, do you?

[Fisherman]

This snippet from the Times of the 11:th can perhaps cast a little light on things:

"About half past 5 o'clock yesterday morning Police constable Bennett, 239 H, was passing on his beat by a railway arch in Pinchin street, St. George's, when he noticed something in the arch. The place in question is used as a receptacle for stones belonging to the District Board of Works, and in front of it there is a hoarding. Part of this, however, has been broken down, and the officer, getting through it, was horrified to find the trunk of a woman in a condition which showed it had been hacked about in a most brutal manner. The head had been severed from the body, while both legs were also missing, and from the lower part of the stomach was a deep gash through which the bowels were protruding."

The day before, Swanson had written a report about the murder. In it, he wrote: "The wound beginning at the lower part of the sternum, cutting through the skin, fatty substance, and penetrating the bowels, and uterus slightly, extended to the left side of the labia major".

[Kattrup]

The Pall Mall Gazette 10 Sept carries an interview with pc Pennet, in which he describes finding the torso;

"One of our representatives, writing from the scene of the murder at Whitechapel at eleven o'clock says:- I have just had an interview with Constable 239 H, who found the body of Jack the Ripper's latest victim. He I said: “I was passing along Pinchin-street, at the foot of Backchurch-lane, about a quarter-past five this morning, when I saw lying on the ground the trunk of a woman, the head and legs of which had been severed and were not present. The body was quite naked, except for a piece of torn linen which might have been a shift or portion of a pair of drawers, thrown over it. The body was fearfully disembowelled, and was marked as if it had been carried in a sack. My own opinion is that it had been so conveyed to the spot where I found it. The stench was something terrific. It would have been impossible to have passed it.”

Thank you Joshua, that could certainly explain it. Of course, the account is very inaccurate, as the body had not been fearfully disembowelled. Still, interesting. I do not think such marks on skin fade on bodies as they do on the living, though?

[Fisherman]

disemboweled?!?

Disemboweled, who? The Pinchin Street torso wasnīt.

[Abby Normal]

Thanks, Joshua!

disemboweled?!?

[Fisherman]

The Pall Mall Gazette 10 Sept carries an interview with pc Pennet, in which he describes finding the torso;

"One of our representatives, writing from the scene of the murder at Whitechapel at eleven o'clock says:- I have just had an interview with Constable 239 H, who found the body of Jack the Ripper's latest victim. He I said: “I was passing along Pinchin-street, at the foot of Backchurch-lane, about a quarter-past five this morning, when I saw lying on the ground the trunk of a woman, the head and legs of which had been severed and were not present. The body was quite naked, except for a piece of torn linen which might have been a shift or portion of a pair of drawers, thrown over it. The body was fearfully disembowelled, and was marked as if it had been carried in a sack. My own opinion is that it had been so conveyed to the spot where I found it. The stench was something terrific. It would have been impossible to have passed it.”

Thanks, Joshua!